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Can Mono bullets be a thing


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#1 Vamron

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:03 AM

Hey community got a question. Do y'all think mono bullets can be made for GM use because if it cam I believe that would fall under tech- heresy. Also if that could be a thing, do y'all think 2 pen is good or a little too much or to little.

#2 Tenebrae

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:15 AM

Hey community got a question. Do y'all think mono bullets can be made for GM use because if it cam I believe that would fall under tech- heresy. Also if that could be a thing, do y'all think 2 pen is good or a little too much or to little.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you're asking? I simply don't understand the above.

Please, I'm not trying to be obnoxious but english is not my first language and I might well be missing something?.

 

I think you want to use the mono upgrade for bullets? For muskets possibly?

Otherwise you'd just use manstoppers presumably?



#3 Lynata

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:22 AM

It's an interesting idea ... that being said, to make it a bit more of a situational rather than a no-brainer, I would recommend Pen +4 (inspired by the DW Kraken Penetrator), but a penalty of Damage -2, fluffing it as a sort of overpenetration caused by the bullet's high velocity and the ease with which it passes through the target, reducing the overall output of raw damage.

 

In essence, you'd end up with a dedicated anti-armour round which helps a lot against heavily armoured targets, but is worse against targets with low or no armour.

 

[edit] Just noticed Manstopper adds Penetration as well - totally forgot about this as I've not been playing a character using these rounds for years. In this case I'd say Manstopper already has Mono applied (similar to Chainsword teeth) ... or houserule Manstoppers into having +Damage but -Pen (basically, hollow point, as it should be), so that you'd end up with two distinctive special rounds.


Edited by Lynata, 07 January 2014 - 10:26 AM.

current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#4 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:35 AM

+Damage -Pen is dum-dums, which exist.


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#5 Vamron

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:49 AM

I actually really like that idea kinda make it to were a mono bullet is I gusse better in some ways than man stopper round. the ggroup I'm in ( I'm GM) have a crazy amount of reduction so I'm trying to find a way to hurt them lol
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#6 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:58 AM

Use plasma.

 

Pen 4 is the same as a bolt round. I don't think bullets should be doing that much.


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#7 Vamron

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:10 AM

dang I completely forgot about plasma Ty

#8 Lynata

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:11 AM

Well, one could say there's no real reason why bullets shouldn't. The physical principle is identical, and the truly unique feature of bolt rounds is that they detonate inside their target. I don't have the books with me right now, but doesn't the Exitus rifle have an even higher Pen?


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#9 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:33 AM

Because it eliminates the reason for having bolters.



#10 Vamron

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:40 AM

but bolters skill have the explosive trait and that it self is amazing
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#11 Lynata

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:49 AM

And a rather nifty selection of special ammo.  ^_^

 

Put simply, bolters are normal guns +1. That's their idea.

If you use special ammo to add this +1 to a normal gun, that's cool. You can also use special ammo for a +1 on bolters, which puts bolt weapons to the fore again.

 

That being said, several people have suggested that bolters should do a couple points more damage (because explosions), and I could see myself supporting this position.


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#12 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:51 AM

It gives you better crits, but most GMs (I think) don't use that for most NPCs anyway. Also Tearing.

 

Anyway, having stub weapons that basically act like bolters removes the niche of bolters, which is: armour-piercing attacks without the danger of plasma.

 

Oh yeah -- give the enemies bolters. That will solve your problem. :)



#13 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:56 AM

And a rather nifty selection of special ammo.  ^_^

 

Put simply, bolters are normal guns +1. That's their idea.

If you use special ammo to add this +1 to a normal gun, that's cool. You can also use special ammo for a +1 on bolters, which puts bolt weapons to the fore again.

 

 

That would make normal guns bolters. Why not just use a bolter? If the answer is "the bolter costs more," then the question becomes "what not get a normal gun with special ammo?" What this will result in is SP weapons always used with special ammo and bolters always used with special ammo. The bolter + special ammo will become the default bolter, because otherwise the bolter has no point, since it can be matched by another weapon.



#14 Vamron

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 12:23 PM

well I'm not giving these bullets to the PC and I got a good idea on what fun well be able to use it( even though in the book it says bullets or bullets unless it's a bolter or shotgun ) and the enemy they are fighting don't have bolter( yet)

#15 Lynata

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 12:39 PM

There is still the aforementioned difference of explosive rounds(admittedly more of a narrative quality aside from Tearing), and that bolters still do +2 points of damage more even with standard rounds.

 

2 points that are just as important as the 2 points of difference (Pen 4 vs Pen 2 of RAW Manstoppers) you say would make bolters redundant. Though, since raw damage is always superior to Penetration (since any Pen over the target's armour is "wasted"), bolters still come out on top even if we would up Penetration to +6.

 

And that's before we consider the raw damage penalty I have suggested as a downside when pitching the +4 Pen.

 

On a sidenote, special ammo for projectile weapons is either for specialists with very fancy rifles, or a stopgap for people who cannot (yet) afford a real bolter that'd have these qualities by default. Likewise, bolters used by people who cannot yet afford special ammo for them are merely status symbols. Personally at least I don't see anything wrong with this concept.

 

Also, D'laku-pattern Hellgun, 1d10+3 Pen 4. If we're looking solely at these numbers, I suppose Dark Heresy already makes bolters useless all by itself. And the D'laku can be used on full auto to boot.


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#16 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:28 PM

Is the introduction of the D'laku being a weapon that doesn't make sense supposed to invalidate an argument that weapons that don't make sense is a bad idea?

 

Here's an idea! The game should have one weapon, and one weapon only! It shall be called "The Gun." The Gun will have a wide variety of special ammo available to it, enough to mimic every currently existing weapon in the armoury!

 

This is of course exactly how the real world functions. If the military wants to engage armour, they simply use The Gun with really high-Pen special ammo. If they want to engage infantry, they give it special ammo that bursts apart in mid-air creating multiple bullets that race toward the target.



#17 Lynata

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:54 PM

Merely pointing out that something that supposedly has a bad effect on the game is already in it by default, so it'd hardly get worse.

 

Exactly how many players in your group ditched their autoguns and bolters for a D'laku so far?


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current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#18 Traejun

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:28 PM

Do y'all think mono bullets can be made...

 

No.

 

The End.



#19 Darth Smeg

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:18 AM

Mono bullets.. that's what Man-stopper rounds are.


Edited by Darth Smeg, 09 January 2014 - 01:18 AM.

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#20 Askil

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 01:59 PM

No, mono is short for monofilament. It denotes both that an item is bladed and that the blade is edged with a monomolecular filament providing the perfect cutting edge.

 

The only monofilament gun is a halequin`s kiss and the ony gun that filres mono edged blades is a shuriken catapult neither of which should be thrown around with impunity.






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