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Movement and LoS question


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#1 jonoden

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 04:39 PM

Specifically related to the Farm in A Fat Goblin E1. Is LoS and movement blocked by the wall that looks like it's jutting out into the next square, forcing figures to move straight through the 2 square middle opening, or can figures treat it like a corner and pass around it as an adjacent square?

 

How corners work for LoS and adjacency have been pretty clear cut so far aside from this one spot due to the black areas.



#2 griton

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:22 AM

You can't move across it, but you can move diagonally past it.

 

FFG's ruling on this one is really weird. Technically, from the upper left bundle of crops, the space just north of it is not adjacent, and there is no LOS. There is, however, LOS from there to the 3rd player search token because of the corner to corner line that can be traced (but the range is 3)

 

Personally, I ignore the LOS blocking rule, so LOS would be traced with a range of 2 to the first square I mentioned.



#3 BentoSan

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:45 AM

http://boardgamegeek...57088/minksling

This pic should help understand LOS a bit better in this situation :)

#4 Krawallburste

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 12:49 PM

actually it confuses me more - dont get it why 6 is illegal, but 7 and 8 not...



#5 jonoden

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:09 PM

That is confusing. I would think since 5 and 6 are blocked, 7 and 8 should be as well. A wall is a wall, it's just not as thick as a 5 foot space , it's only 1 foot lets say 6 inches either side. Unless there's an official explanation in not aware of.

Also in 9, since you have LoS from A to B, can you also move from A to B. I suspect it blocks movement but not LoS.

EDIT: I'm just going to ignore the black area intrusion into the 2nd space, I suspect the spirit is that there is a wall between the two outer squares entering the farm.

9 is the perfect image. Let's say the crop is A, where do you have to be standing to pick it up?

Edited by jonoden, 06 January 2014 - 01:14 PM.


#6 Robin

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:29 PM

actually it confuses me more - dont get it why 6 is illegal, but 7 and 8 not...

Because 6 was explicitly covered by the FAQ.


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
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#7 Krawallburste

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 03:39 PM

wonderbra =D



#8 griton

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:48 AM

The LOS rules are: Corner to Corner, but not immediately across a black line, even though their corners touch.

 

Another thing to consider is that those figures don't show the range, just whether LOS can be traced. You still have to count spaces based on adjacency. In case 7, range is 2. In case 8, and in both cases for 9, range is 3.

 

If you don't like the LOS rules, a number of people have gone back to Center-Center LOS rules. Note that due to the smaller, more crowded maps, this does noticeably affect ranged figures (both heroes and overlord). Personally, I just ignore case 6's and say that it works, but the range is 2. Basically, changing the ruling so that the black line blocks adjacency. 

 

Another option is to treat any lines like that as if they were wide enough to turn them into cases similar to 2, 4, and 5. 



#9 KtuluCaller

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:13 PM


 

actually it confuses me more - dont get it why 6 is illegal, but 7 and 8 not...

Because 6 was explicitly covered by the FAQ.

 

 

In my opinion, they need to make case 6 legal again, or revise LOS back to center-to-center.  

 

It makes little sense that there is no LOS in case 6, but there is LOS in cases 7-9.  For example, if B can "see" A and A can "see" B through the wall in case 7, then surely they can also see each other in 6.


Edited by KtuluCaller, 07 January 2014 - 11:15 PM.


#10 Kirgat

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 03:52 AM

I don't understand the point of walls. ¿Why can you be attacked while being fully covered by a wall? Check that in cases 7 to 9, if we follow this rule, A can be attacked from any space (except in case 7 being A&B next to each other which would be the same as case 6). :wacko:



#11 centralx

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 05:19 AM

I tend to rationalize the LoS rules by just remembering it really favors diagonal shooting versus shooting in a straight line. Otherwise I don't blame you all for your confusion. I always wonder if I play LoS wrong because the shots my heroes pull off just feels wrong sometimes. According to the rules they are right. The game just plays a little fast and loose I guess.

 

To be specific to your confusion Kirgat is number 6 is specifically addressed in the FAQ. For some reason you need a space if it lines up that way to shoot at range. Fortunately this doesn't seem to come up very much.


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#12 jonoden

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 05:55 AM

The weird part is in a realistic fashion, I would think 6 would be the only one that should have a chance to hit since a char could theoretically lean around the wall. No way to do that away from the wall.

#13 BentoSan

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:58 AM

I personally envision 6 being realistic like this:

 

Both character are huddling right into their respective corners, one character peeps his head out from the corner​ but cannot see the character huddled into the other corner unless he takes a step out of his cover to look right around the corner.

 

While he can lean around the wall and see a character one tile away from the other side of the wall, he would have to go just that bit further to see the figure huddled into the corner on the other side of the wall.

 

You may or may not agree with my reasoning, but that how i see it as making realistic sense as far as this game is concerned and i have no problem with the ruling.

 

 

 

I found coming up with scenarios like this in my head for each of the different reasons why LOS would happen or not in these scenarios a very useful tool for remembering how LOS works. I recommend instead of focusing on reasons why it wouldn't make sense, to instead come up with ways why it would and that will help you remember them while not having gripes with the game. It will also help to add you your enjoyment envisioning how the actions are playing out on the board in your mind :)


Edited by BentoSan, 08 January 2014 - 07:08 AM.

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#14 Steve-O

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 10:21 PM

I found coming up with scenarios like this in my head for each of the different reasons why LOS would happen or not in these scenarios a very useful tool for remembering how LOS works. I recommend instead of focusing on reasons why it wouldn't make sense, to instead come up with ways why it would and that will help you remember them while not having gripes with the game. It will also help to add you your enjoyment envisioning how the actions are playing out on the board in your mind :)



I agree completely, and I applaud your efforts for finding a way to make sense of these LoS scenarios as written. I always encourage the idea of inventing theme to fit the rules rather than the other way around.

That said, I do still think a lot of these LoS scenarios are ridiculous, official though they may be. =P




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