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Splitting the Conditions deck


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#1 Angelic Despot

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 10:19 AM

Just finished my first game, and while there were many things I like about it (and improvements over the way Arkham Horror handles similar things), I wondered why on earth the Conditions deck has been combined.

 

Every single time I was told to pick a condition I was either instructed to pick a specific card (e.g. a debt), or draw from a specifc range of cards (e.g. 'injuries).   I can so no reason why all these cards are combined into a single deck, and no reason why this deck needs to be constantly reshuffled.

 

In future I'll be splitting this deck into separate injury, madness, debt, blessing decks, etc.

 

Will be much easier to search/sort through, and much faster to shuffle if/when necessary.

 

Although I think combining the allies, equipment, etc. into a single assets deck was a good move, saving time and space, the conditions decks really ought to have been left as separate decks, with diferent backs.

 

Is anyone aware of a reason why splitting the deck into its different parts won't work?   Are there game effects that instruct you to draw a condition at random?


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#2 Glaurung

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 10:49 AM

Very good idea!!! really is safe time and have a same effect anyway...

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#3 Vala_Melkor

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 05:51 PM

You know what, I think your right!

 

We've played short of 20 games and I can't remember any time we needed to pick a random effect?  Although there might have been one-time ... mmmmm ... I'm not one for counting/looking at the cards to spoil things, so maybe someone will flag up a situ where a random one from the whole pack is called for???

 

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#4 Angelic Despot

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 07:16 PM

Same here - and that's what I'm hoping for!   But I'd be surprised.   I can't imagine many situations in which it'd be as appropriate to gain a bad back as a debt or a blessing.


Edited by Angelic Despot, 05 January 2014 - 07:18 PM.


#5 drummond13

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 03:21 AM

This feels to me like an issue of personal preference.  I see no reason splitting those conditions into the piles you described would be an issue game-wise.  For me it would be an issue space-wise, which is why I suspect the cards were combined in the first place.  The game takes up quite a bit of space as it is.

 

Personally, I've never had the issues you've described.  I shuffle the deck a little, then riff cards until I get one that fulfills the requirement.  It takes literally seconds and the deck still only takes up a small space on my table.  But if you found this annoying for you and your group, go ahead and separate them.  

 

I don't know why you feel the cards should have different backs, though.  That would completely defeat the purpose of the double-sided cards.


Edited by drummond13, 13 January 2014 - 03:27 AM.

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#6 MyNeighbourTrololo

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:47 AM

One deck consumes less place. 



#7 Angelic Despot

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 05:49 PM

I put my mini decks in a card holder, and have each one separated by a cardboard spacer, so they don't take up any more room than a single deck.   And it's quicker and requires much less reshuffling to just pick the top card from the relevant deck than sort through a combined deck and then reshuffle the whole lot.   Constantly.

 

The reason I'd like different coloured backs obviously is only because I don't see any benefits in having the cards as a single deck, and so having each of the mini decks have distinctive look would therefore be helpful.

 

As I said, combining the assets into a single deck works very well, especially with a spread of cards displayed to pick from.   But assets all, broadly speaking, do the same thing (give you a boost to something).   The conditions don't.   They are triggered by different things, and affect characters in different ways.   As I also said, I don't think there's ever likely to be an occasion when something that triggers you to pull an injury would just as sensibly require you to pull a debt.   If you're constantly searching through the deck for specific cards, then I don't think it makes sense to have combined them in the first place.

 

Obviously personal preference is all that matters here, but I just found this to be a weird decision.


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#8 drummond13

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 03:22 AM

I guess I just don't understand what you mean by constantly searching through the deck.  It literally takes less than five seconds to find whatever card you need just by just riffing through the cards.  And the benefit is space saved; not all of us have card holders and cardboard spacers.  Even shuffling doesn't take any time because you only need to randomize the cards that match.  Just cutting the deck a few times accomplishes this.  

 

I don't see it as a weird decision at all.  On the contrary, I am grateful that the designer consolidated something.  Between the various encounter decks, Mythos deck, artifacts deck, assets deck, spell deck, and research deck, I run short of table space quite quickly even without separating the conditions deck into five extra separate decks.  But as you said, this is all a matter of personal preference.  If your way works for you, more power to you :)


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#9 Husker949

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:16 AM

I agree with drummond13, not everyone has the space or ability to purchase holders. As for the shuffling mechanic, the reason they always want you to shuffle is because there are only 3 of each type of condition. If you separate them, there is a greater chance of knowing what card you just picked out of the deck versus having them worked into a larger pool to decrease the ability to "count cards".



#10 MyNeighbourTrololo

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 08:54 AM

There are more than 3 Debts.



#11 Husker949

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 09:27 AM

An exception to the 3 limit, but still there are so few of each type that you can almost guarantee what condition you will get next after they have been shuffled back in.



#12 mccrispy

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 11:12 AM

I agree with drummond13, not everyone has the space or ability to purchase holders. As for the shuffling mechanic, the reason they always want you to shuffle is because there are only 3 of each type of condition. If you separate them, there is a greater chance of knowing what card you just picked out of the deck versus having them worked into a larger pool to decrease the ability to "count cards".

I understand your comment about budget. Fair point. Business Card Holders are at the very budget end of solutions, costing only a few currency units. However, I already had mine for AH, so I just reused. But, as I said, I accept your cost-related point entirely. As to space, I absolutely guarantee that a solution based on the holders that I use takes up significantly less space than placing the cards on the table. However, I know that some who play AH place the cards in appropriate locations on the playing board itself and that might be a solution for the budget-conscious space-starved EH player.


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#13 Wolfgar

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 02:31 PM

I thought I'd buy cardholders, but I rolled no successes, so I had to take a Bank Loan. Unfortunately I couldn't talk my way out of it, so then I went insane when it was flipped. Now I just lie in bed and mutter about how I'm just a character is a board game.


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#14 Angelic Despot

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 04:22 PM

Yeah, my card holders were free.   I ordered 10 packs (actually more) of FFG card sleeves - for using on AH and EH - and use the cardboard box they came in, with thick cardboard spacers I cut from packaging.   But you could use any cardboard box of approximately the right shape.   It means I can have all of my AH location decks in a space that takes up no more than about 2" by 8" - a lot less than laying them all out flat on the table.

 

For me, while playing EH it wasn't just the searching for cards I found annoying, but the shuffling of the deck every time I drew a card.   The only reason you have to keep reshuffling is because you're glancing at other cards while you're searching for the one you've been instructed to draw.   But if you've split the deck (assuming that space either isn't an issue or has been solved by using a card holder of some kind), you don't need to search, and don't therefore need to shuffle.

 

As for almost guaranteeing the card you'll draw next from a small deck, that's a result of having so few of any given type of card to choose from.   Whether or not you pad those three cards out by mixing them in with what is in practice a deck of different cards is irrelevant.   Every time you're instructed to draw a debt, blessing or what have you, there are only so many cards of that type to choose from - so if one of them is already in play, and you're somewhat familiar with the cards, then you'll be able to make a pretty good guess as to what you're about to draw.

 

One of the things I greatly appreciate about this game is that a lot of clutter and space (rules and components) have been merged, slimmed down, discarded, etc. as appropriate.   But mixing the conditions doesn't - in my opinion - make any sense, because the different conditions are not interchangeable.   It's like having the Other Worlds deck and the Expeditions deck merged into one, along with the instruction to search through the deck for an other world card every time you go through a gate (and then reshuffle the deck).   The intention - saving space and complication - was definitely a good one.   I just think this deck took that principle too far.


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#15 Mik

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:35 AM

We also do as Drummond13.

It is very easy to draw cards until you find one of the correct type, Then shuffle the deck while waiting for the other players to take their turn. Same when one of the conditions are returned: simply give the deck a few shuffles.



#16 Ralzar

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 02:52 AM

I just played my first game last night and I had exactly the same thoughts as Angelic Despot. I could not understand why the the conditions were shuffled together in one messy stack when the game kept telling me to search through the stack for an appropriate card. I kept waiting for the game to actually tell me to draw a random condition, but it never happened.

You do not even have to have the conditions in individual decks. You can just NOT shuffle them. Instead, just have all Amnesia card, then all Debt etc. Then when you need a random card of a certain type, just find all the cards of the appropriate type and select one of them at random.

The shuffled condition card stack just seems like a mess without any reason to it.


Edited by Ralzar, 11 February 2014 - 02:52 AM.

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#17 Glaurung

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 04:37 AM

I just played my first game last night and I had exactly the same thoughts as Angelic Despot. I could not understand why the the conditions were shuffled together in one messy stack when the game kept telling me to search through the stack for an appropriate card. I kept waiting for the game to actually tell me to draw a random condition, but it never happened.

You do not even have to have the conditions in individual decks. You can just NOT shuffle them. Instead, just have all Amnesia card, then all Debt etc. Then when you need a random card of a certain type, just find all the cards of the appropriate type and select one of them at random.

The shuffled condition card stack just seems like a mess without any reason to it.

yes sure you can do it. Actually is change nothing in the end of the day….if it save your time why not?


Wizard is never late.......

 

Glaurung playtrough LOTR LCG on youtube :

http://www.youtube.com/user/olegyd   


#18 SolennelBern

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 08:35 AM

My guess is that it's simply because they want you to cycle/reshuffle the deck repeatedly.  When you have to find a "X" condition you cycle through the top cards until you find one then discard the one you draw.  Then you reshuffle the discard into a new deck, over and over again :P

 

That's what I do and it's not that bad, just feels a bit weird.



#19 Jayven

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 03:27 PM

I would say one deck saves space (I too have the business card holders for AH) but from what I have seen so far, I wouldn't be surprised if something states taking a random condition (ie from the bottom of the deck) as that would be a challenge unto its own. 


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#20 Ralzar

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 12:22 PM

I have now tried playing a couple of more times. With the condition deck organized based on type and then alphabetically. I've found this to work better and there have so far been no instances where I needed a completely random condition.


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