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Tests: Using one effect that provides a bonus


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#1 Kieveli

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 09:45 AM

I've run into a situation that, I think, leaves wiggle room for munchkins.  Let me describe it, then you can straighten me out.

 

I have the following assets:

  • Bull Whip (+1 str, reroll 1 die)
  • .45 (+3 str)
  • Kerosene (+5 str on discard)

The Reference states (Tests - Determine Dice Pool): "He may use one effect that provides a bonus.  If multiple effects provide a bonus, he uses only the highest bonus."

 

Now, the bonus, in my opinion, is the +1, +3, or +5.  Is the bonus intended to also include the reroll?  If I have a reroll on other cards, can I choose to use the +3 from the .45, and also the reroll on the bullwhip?  Is the intention supposed to be something like this: "On any test, an investigator may choose one, and only one, asset to aid his chances of success."?

 

I was wondering if perhaps different classes of assets could be applied seperatly.  If I had an ally the provides +1 str and also a weapon, I don't see a logical reason for only using one or the other.  The ally stands beside me and the weapon is in my hand.  Some artifacts are logically 'wearable' and could provide a bonus along with a weapon.  Could I use a weapon and a spell?

 

Again, the phrasing of "one effect that provides a bonus" leaves it up to interpretation.  What's your call on this one?

 

Edit:  Ok, I saw the FAQ, and they named the exact same two cards.  Perhaps I internalized this and then doubted it later!!


Edited by Kieveli, 04 January 2014 - 10:08 AM.


#2 Wolfgar

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 11:37 AM

Here is how it goes down.

 

In the above scenario, you could choose to discard Kerosene and gain the +5 bonus. If you did not choose to do so, you would receive the highest available bonus. In this case it's the .45 Automatic. While the Bullwhip would not add anything to Strength, you would get the reroll.

 

Any none-bonus effects on cards may be combined. So if I have say, the Bullwhip, the Shotgun, the Derringer, and the Lightning Gun, I would get: +6 to my roll(Lightning Gun), +1 to any one die(Derringer), One rerolled die if I wished (Bullwhip), and 6's would count double (Shotgun).

 

Likewise, any effect that says it adds "an additional die" is cumulative and may be added together. Silas's passive special that adds an extra die to Sea encounters, Leo's passive special that adds an extra die to Wilderness encounters, Jim's passive special that adds an extra die to combat encounters and the Urban Guide ally's that adds an extra die to city encounters are all cumulative and may be combined with dice that give bonuses.

 

"Bonus" is relatively unambiguous here; it's simply "Gain +n to (Skill)".

 

Bonuses from different classes or types of cards are not cumulative. You may only gain the highest bonus from any given effect. So if you have the Hired Muscle Ally Asset (+1 Strength), The .45 Automatic Weapon Asset (+3 Strength), a successfully cast Wither Spell (+3 Strength) and the Lightning Gun (+6 Strength), you would only gain the bonus of the Lightning Gun.


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#3 Krysmopompas

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 03:31 PM

Hey Wolfgar, I'm sure ALLIES give their effects no matter what, no? Otherwise what's the point of them...In your last example I think you'd gain the bonus of the Lightning Gun + the Muscled Ally Asset (which in my mind is like a skill improvement unless you lose the card). I'll look it up but I'm sure that's the case.

 

If for some reason I'm wrong I don't care, I'm doing it that way anyway:)

 

RE: the shotgun, would you really get bonus 6s even if you're not using the rest of the bonus? seems weird....

 

happy new year


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#4 Sadistikal

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 04:27 PM

I am with Krysmopompas here - we have been playing the rule as if it was a "logic" rule more than a rule.

 

Examples:

Hired Muscle would give +Str ALONG with ONE weapons bonuses +Str (such as +2 from the .45)

 

Also, we played it that spells and discard cards can be used as well. So discarding the Kerosine gives you a +5 along with your other bonuses. Hence the example above with the Hired Muscle + .45 gives +3 Str total then a one roll bonus of +5 for Kerosene giving +8 fight dice.

 

Interested to re-read the ruling area again now though, and maybe get an official clarification. As I can see Wolfgars points as well.


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#5 Julia

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 06:59 PM

Sorry folks, I'm with Wolfgar on this one. Rules read (pag 12):

 

An investigator can use only one card effect that provides a skill bonus during each test (for example, an Asset that reads “Gain +1”). If he has multiple card effects that provide a bonus, he uses the highest bonus.

 

Wording refers to cards not to assets or specific cards. So, cards are not allowed to stack. Hence, you can't use a Hired Muscle to boost the bonus to the STR test given by a weapon.


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#6 ricedwlit

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 09:09 PM

Agree with Julia and Wolfgar.  The whole point of only limiting to just one skill bonus (across any card type) is to keep things simple when it comes to determining how many dice to roll - just pick the one that is most appropriate (i.e. you may not need to use the Kerosene just yet).

 

Yes, there are things that still complicate things (such as add +1 to a die result), but on the whole I find it much simpler than a particular other game that I shall not mention.



#7 Wolfgar

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 09:59 AM

No, Allies aren't special as far as card effects go. That said, most of the basic ones still provide rerolls.

 

It's not like you are buying weapons to outfit your Allies too, and Hired Muscle is just a guy who helps you beat people up. If you bring a gun or just burn the place down, the extra guy punching things is kind of irrelevant.


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#8 Vala_Melkor

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 06:03 PM

Yeah, the rules are pretty clear on this one ...

 

An investigator can use only one card effect that provides a skill bonus during

each test (for example, an Asset that reads “Gain +1”). If he has multiple card

effects that provide a bonus, he uses the highest bonus.

 

... and it's for all tests, not just combat. 

 

BUT, if you want to play house-rules, it's believable to imagine that a thug would add an extra die if you wanted.  That's the beauty of these games, inHouse rules can add to the flavour and make it more cinematic!

 

Walts


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#9 Barl

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:46 AM

Yeah the point of allies is that they add the bonus to all tests, not just to combat rolls, like most weapons.



#10 Wolfgar

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 12:35 PM

Aye, the nice thing about Hired Muscle is you can use it not only for combat checks but also for Expeditions, where Strength can be important, or for certain Otherworld or City encounters.

 

That said, it's not impossible that an Ally could only add to combat rolls, and a few don't add dice at all.


Edited by Wolfgar, 06 January 2014 - 12:36 PM.


#11 Glaurung

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:32 PM

I have question about Kerosine and this kind of card…… It says discard to get +5 strength for a combat encounter.

 

If you have a 2 or more monsters in the space and you must to fight with everyone kerosine give you effect against every monster or only the first one?


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#12 Justin Alexander

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 03:49 PM

Pg. 9: "... he must resolve a single Combat Encounter against each monster on that space, one at a time, in the order of his choice."

 

Each monster is a separate Combat Encounter, ergo the Kerosene can only be used against a single monster. (It doesn't have to be the first one; you could have a Combat Encounter with one monster and then discard the kerosene to help you with the Combat Encounter with the second monster.)



#13 Vala_Melkor

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 04:07 PM

Pg. 9: "... he must resolve a single Combat Encounter against each monster on that space, one at a time, in the order of his choice."

 

Each monster is a separate Combat Encounter, ergo the Kerosene can only be used against a single monster. (It doesn't have to be the first one; you could have a Combat Encounter with one monster and then discard the kerosene to help you with the Combat Encounter with the second monster.)

 

As Justin says, but there is odd cards which can help inflict damage to all monsters on your space, dynamite being one such weapon card ... Walts


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe... [laughs] Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched cBeams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those... moments... will be lost in time, like [coughs] tears... in... rain. Time... to die...

 


#14 Glaurung

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:11 PM

Pg. 9: "... he must resolve a single Combat Encounter against each monster on that space, one at a time, in the order of his choice."

 

Each monster is a separate Combat Encounter, ergo the Kerosene can only be used against a single monster. (It doesn't have to be the first one; you could have a Combat Encounter with one monster and then discard the kerosene to help you with the Combat Encounter with the second monster.)

Ok thank you…..i use to play this way but then i start to have some doubts…….


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Glaurung playtrough LOTR LCG on youtube :

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