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Weapons Kit Out for a Star Galleon?


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#1 venkelos

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 03:19 PM

So, I'm throwing together some of the finer details of some various threads of my overall RT story, and I hit a snag. Lord-Captain Korvallus is the Rogue Trader of his Dynasty, more often referred to as the Silver Ravens (like a mercenary company, or enterprise). Part of the name choice stems from the ship that came with his ANCIENT Warrant, a Conquest-class Star Galleon named the Silver Raven. As Korvallus chose to bring his military ship the Dictator-class Hammerfall with him, the Silver Raven sat in port, and most people never knew it existed. When he needed a ship during a several-years repair stint on the Hammerfall, he actually used the SR as his flag ship, till the Hammerfall was fixed, and then the Raven again "disappeared". Thing is, in addition to kind of having crappy armor, the Galleon is a cruiser-class vessel without a prow slot, so my pirate ship can't have a nova cannon (not a HUGE loss, I grant). Knowing that a few other folks must have statted an SG, what would be some good weapons for her to carry? Money is relatively no object, and the ship is from Mars, back when the Emperor lived, so it can easily carry some archaeotech. It's a rare ship for Korvallus in that it doesn't have hangers, so I've got four weapon slots to fill. Korvallus often fights, for the most part, Orks; he can often talk his way out (Legend of the Expanse) of other issues. Ideas?



#2 Marwynn

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 03:34 PM

If you're okay with losing some stats, the Hold Landing Bay can be pretty sweet. With a pair of Landing Bays on each side you can launch 6 at a time. Kinda nuts.

 

I always have trouble with the Conquest, not enough space on the things with all the Cruiser components.


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#3 Tenebrae

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 03:52 PM

If you're okay with losing some stats, the Hold Landing Bay can be pretty sweet. With a pair of Landing Bays on each side you can launch 6 at a time. Kinda nuts.

It can take cruiser bays, so that would be 10 per round, surely?



#4 Erathia

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 03:57 PM

Fighting Orks makes it a little tricky, because although I love the Star Galleon it doesn't have QUITE enough space to mount a good Port/Starboard Broadside & Lance combo. For my Campaign, the Star Galleon took an Archeotech component that someone proposed on the forums a long time ago called "Vampire Torpedo Tubes", so could be mounted in Port/Starboard in exchange for them taking up twice the normal power. Since you can mount a Cruiser's plasma drive in this ship, you will have no problems with power, just with Space.

 

This is a valid build that I've thrown together that relies on one crucial interpretation of the "Cruiser/Transport" selection rule. Warp Drives have a different name for Transports and Cruisers, meaning that you may mount the Miloslav G-161.b Warp Engine because it has a different name from the Miloslav H-161.b Warp Engine. That saves you a precious 2 Space and 2 Power. This ship is not very fast, but it does have incredibly long-range macrobatteries, and with Excess Void Armour it is more survivable. The sole Archeotech component is the Energistic Conversion Matrix, so if needed you can boost Speed to great, great heights.

 

Conquest-Class Star Galleon

 

Basic Information

 

  • Speed: 2
  • Manoeuvrability: -3
  • Detection: +20
  • Turret Rating: 1
  • Shields: 2
  • Armour: 19
  • Hull Integrity: 60 

 

Skill Test Modifiers

 

Ballistic Tests +10, Navigation/Warp +5, Navigation/Combat +5, Navigation/Escape Combat +5, Navigation/Piloting +5, Extended Repairs +10, Restore HI Acq Test  +10

 

Achievement Bonuses

 

Trade: +135

 

Essential Components

  • Plasma Drive: Jovian Pattern Class 8.1 Drive
  • Warp Engine: Miloslav G-616.b Warp Engine
  • Gellar Field: Emergency Field
  • Bridge: Ship Master's Bridge
  • Life Sustainer: Vitae-Pattern Life Sustainer
  • Crew Quarters: Voidsman Quarters
  • Auger Array: Deep Void Augur Array 

Weapons

  • Port/Starboard: 2x Hecutor Plasma Batteries
  • Keel: Hold Landing Bay

 

Supplemental Components

  • Excess Void Armour
  • Main Cargo Hold (x1)
  • Manufactorum
  • Pilot's Chamber
  • Energistic Conversion Matrix

So with Speed 2 it's not that great, but with the Energistic Conversion Matrix's ability to convert 5 power for 1 speed, you will be able to shunt power for speed as needed. You can re-route 8 power from the Warp Engines, and 32 from the Weapons if you're not expecting combat, your speed becomes 10 by default. Clearly having Weapons not being powered by default might also play into your Captain's tendency to resort to diplomacy over violence.


Edited by Erathia, 31 December 2013 - 04:00 PM.

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#5 Marwynn

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 07:51 PM

If you're okay with losing some people stats, the Hold Landing Bay can be pretty sweet. With a pair of Landing Bays on each side you can launch 6 at a time. Kinda nuts.

It can take cruiser bays, so that would be 10 per round, surely?

I figured you'd want other things too. Say Disruption Macros.

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#6 Tenebrae

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 07:56 PM

I figured you'd want other things too. Say Disruption Macros.

Since disruption macros don't exist at the table where I normally play, hardly those.



#7 Tenebrae

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 05:56 AM

This is a valid build that I've thrown together that relies on one crucial interpretation of the "Cruiser/Transport" selection rule. Warp Drives have a different name for Transports and Cruisers, meaning that you may mount the Miloslav G-161.b Warp Engine because it has a different name from the Miloslav H-161.b Warp Engine. That saves you a precious 2 Space and 2 Power. This ship is not very fast, but it does have incredibly long-range macrobatteries, and with Excess Void Armour it is more survivable. The sole Archeotech component is the Energistic Conversion Matrix, so if needed you can boost Speed to great, great heights.

 

That's a rather generous interpretation. One which would not be accepted at my usual table, and one which I could not myself support.

But I can see the argument for it.



#8 venkelos

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 01:22 PM

Yeah, I'd have to stick with Hybrid Vessel's "if the component has both a Transport and Cruiser variant, go with the Cruiser variant" meaning take the Cruiser Milosav. I see your logic, but feel the name change is just to differentiate class of vessel, like "Class 4 Plasma Drive" vs "Class 5"; they do the same thing, so I'd have to take the Class 5, or whatever number is attached to Cruisers, of whatever variety of Plasma Drives I'm picking from.

 

 

I think I rather love those Vampire Torpedoes. While I can't argue that it makes some sense that a ship needs to mount them into a prow slot, to absorb the push of their launch (guns shoot bullets out the end, not out the side), the number of Imperial vessels that don't have Prow slots is irritating; not as bad as keel slots, but that's just me whining. I also would, I suppose, want the smallest profile for while sitting there, launching torpedoes. Having a launcher that draws some extra power (inertial dampeners and compensators?) so that it can sit in a side mount is awesome, as you come up, along side (far enough away, mind you), and then let loose a salvo that no fighters had time to intercept.



#9 Erathia

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 07:59 PM

Yeah, I'd have to stick with Hybrid Vessel's "if the component has both a Transport and Cruiser variant, go with the Cruiser variant" meaning take the Cruiser Milosav. I see your logic, but feel the name change is just to differentiate class of vessel, like "Class 4 Plasma Drive" vs "Class 5"; they do the same thing, so I'd have to take the Class 5, or whatever number is attached to Cruisers, of whatever variety of Plasma Drives I'm picking from.

 

 

I think I rather love those Vampire Torpedoes. While I can't argue that it makes some sense that a ship needs to mount them into a prow slot, to absorb the push of their launch (guns shoot bullets out the end, not out the side), the number of Imperial vessels that don't have Prow slots is irritating; not as bad as keel slots, but that's just me whining. I also would, I suppose, want the smallest profile for while sitting there, launching torpedoes. Having a launcher that draws some extra power (inertial dampeners and compensators?) so that it can sit in a side mount is awesome, as you come up, along side (far enough away, mind you), and then let loose a salvo that no fighters had time to intercept.

 

I think the justification was that it was Archeotech that understood how to utilize dampening technology, and was called a "Vampire" upgrade because it sucked up twice as much power as normal before firing.

 

I still like my interpretation by doggedly sticking to RAW, but then thi sis a ship I came up with. You can make it a viable build by removing the Manufactorum (which I like to stick in my ships for flavour) and switching the Miloslav for an Albanov 1 Warp Engine. Your Cruiser will be slow in the Warp, but it will almost certainly arrive wherever it's going safely.


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#10 The_Shaman

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 10:43 AM

This is a bit of a forum necromancy, but since I am interested  in statting out a Star Galleon, what would you think of having 1+1 carrier holds (one regular at port or starboard, one converted from cargo hold), so you have one side with a double battery or battery+lance combo and one that you can use for carrier duty with a single battery in case a fast enemy manages to get a flank? With a Warcruiser drive (the one from Into the Storm that gives extra power) energy should not be a problem, so you can put some long-range armament and turn the combat side towards your biggest problem. 

 

I´ll throw in a more detailed breakdown of components when I go home. I have a perverse desire to give that beauty spacedock piers for when you can have your very own fleet... or decide to function as a temporary space station :) 


Edited by The_Shaman, 23 November 2014 - 11:01 AM.


#11 Tenebrae

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 11:33 PM

This is a bit of a forum necromancy, but since I am interested  in statting out a Star Galleon, what would you think of having 1+1 carrier holds (one regular at port or starboard, one converted from cargo hold), so you have one side with a double battery or battery+lance combo and one that you can use for carrier duty with a single battery in case a fast enemy manages to get a flank? With a Warcruiser drive (the one from Into the Storm that gives extra power) energy should not be a problem, so you can put some long-range armament and turn the combat side towards your biggest problem.

While entirely within the rules, I'm personally rather allergic to asymmetric ships like this. :)

I´ll throw in a more detailed breakdown of components when I go home. I have a perverse desire to give that beauty spacedock piers for when you can have your very own fleet... or decide to function as a temporary space station :)

Spacedock piers are awesome, IMAO.

#12 The_Shaman

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 07:23 AM

I don't normally like them either, but I am a bit worried that only 2 macrocannon batteries - one on either side - might not be enough for defense until you get an escort or two. Has anyone tried using a ship likethat with only one gun per side?



#13 Marwynn

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 08:17 AM

On the Blessed Enterprise it was okay having just a broadside/battery there. But I did have a Prow-mounted lance battery on the thing.

 

The New Hope, a Star Galleon, is using twin Sunsears on each side. Whether you're using Vanilla or MH (or our own house rules) it makes the most sense for a ship not meant for combat. 


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#14 Erathia

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 01:02 PM

I am a fan of asymmetrical carriers, but it does mean you want to try to ensure that engagements happen on your terms, not your enemy's. Or you need escorts. If you've got Spacedock Piers then I allow my players to make tests to travel in the Warp with Raiders docked even though you're technically "moving" in there. 

 

If you go ahead with this idea, make a note of which side has the guns (port or starboard) and then constantly have your Rogue Trader mention he only likes his "good side" to face people (left or right respectively) when he talks to someone.


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#15 The_Shaman

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 06:29 PM

On the Blessed Enterprise it was okay having just a broadside/battery there. But I did have a Prow-mounted lance battery on the thing.

 

The New Hope, a Star Galleon, is using twin Sunsears on each side. Whether you're using Vanilla or MH (or our own house rules) it makes the most sense for a ship not meant for combat. 

 

Nor primarily for combat, perhaps, but I like to imagine a ship this size never being quite alone :) . Besides, Sunsears seem fairly solid in what we've seen from them so far. I'm not sure broadsides are a worthy upgrade except special cases (i.e. navigator powers being involved), though, and the space piers preclude them. They don't say anything about lance batteries tho :)

 

Ok, here is a preliminary sketch (sans spacedock piers for a more independent vessel) - due to the huge amount of SP involved it would likely take an insanely ancient dynasty or more likely some ingame upgrades:

 

Legacy of Xariesh, Conquest-Class Star galleon:

 

Galleon:

Base SP:52   Base Space: 56

Speed 7+, maneuverability -2, det +15, hull 60-1d5+2-6, armor 17, Shields 2, TR 1

Package: Planetbound for millenia

(Alternatively, I was thinking about having it be recovered from a space hulk,for a quick boost to useful statistics that will in no way ever bite us in the ass - resolute + space hulk would likely be my preferred combo, with an ancient enough dynasty so you can get some archeotech)

 

Bonuses:no penalty to maneuver in celestial phenomena, +275(300 if craft from orbit involved)/150/100/50 achievement points to trade/criminal/creed/exploration objective , +10 to command when resisting hit and run/boarding,.+10 to  social skills made onboard, recovery and repair of small craft permitted, +5 to command rolls of attack craft, tests to ready squadron always passed, -3 to crew population losses, +1 to morale losses, -2 to morale,

 

Plasma drive: Modified Jovian Warcruiser: 13 space, +85 power, 2 SP, +1 speed

Warp drive: Markov 1 – 12 /12 /1

Rep. void shield array> 8/2/0

Warpbane hull 1 0 2

Flight command bridge: 2/2/0

2 main Cargo holds - -2 power, included

Vitae Life support: 5/3

Voidsmen quarters: 2/4

Augur: M201B: 5/0

30 space and 48 power left ,60 SP total

 

(weapons reserved: 23 power, 17 space: 2xsunsear, sunhammer lance jovian pattern bay: 6 SP)

Left: 25 power, 13 space

 

Additional components:

Small craft repair pier: 2/2/1 (vital for the maintenance of the carrier voidwing)

Extra armor – 0/2/2 (a bit more defense can't hurt)

Crew reclamation  facility – 1/1/1 (I'm not sure about that but it will help reduce crew losses)

Мelodium–  same requirements (will offset some of the morale penalty and help social characters keep control of the crew, also helps our ship feel like a floating cathedral)

Trophy room – same requirements (many bonuses and has the RT feel like a BAWS)

Luxury quarters 2/1/1 (a great woman or man deserves to have something extra for their guests)

Energistic conversion matrix 1/1/1 (one of the ship's gimmicks, using the huge extra power output of the warcruiser drive for great speed)

Tenebrum maze 2/3/2 (helps with ship defense and to avoid a critical messing you up)

Hold landing bay conversion: 1/0/2 (for a second carrier bay)

Field Bracing: 1-3/1/2 (The Legacy has power to burn, but relatively few HP)

Remaining: 1 space, 12 power, but now at over 70 SP :)

 

Possible upgrades I am thinking about (if I can squeeze space or SPs)

Arboretum (bonus to population and long-distance functioning, which I think this ship should do)

Librarium (bonus to investigations and make the ship a museum)

Cloud mining facility (get new resources and help with long-range missions)

Pilot’s chambers (it relies strongly on pilots)

Displays of wealth (it is a space galleon, for crying out loud).

Vaunted Ceilings (an ancient and great ship like that deserves it, and see the part about having it feel like a cathedral)

Runecaster (a dynasty like that probably has some secrets, and this keeps it safe in the warp and synergyzes with the Markov pattern engines for incredibly short travel times).

 

 

Apart from probably requiring half the campaign to get there, how does it sound ;)?


Edited by The_Shaman, 24 November 2014 - 06:44 PM.


#16 Marascal

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 06:01 AM

We're running a Star Galleon Carrier in our campaign. Four launch bays plus a hold bay conversion for 12 points of launch strength. It's been an interesting campaign with no guns to speak of, closer to a battlestar than a out and out warship.

 

Good points is that we have an entire fleet at our command and it makes the ship extremely versatile. Bad points would be the sheer amount of space those bays take up, limiting what else we might want.



#17 Traejun

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 01:20 PM

I had a Star Galleon is one of my campaigns - it was our starting ship.  I kitted that thing out like a luxury liner for my RT.  If I could put dice in the mirror and have it slammed on 20" rims (with spinners), I would have.  If my RT was a pimp... that would have been my whip.

 

For kit... all the sexy components: luxury quarters, temple, pharmacia, observation dome, melodium(sp?), etc... It was pretty light on firepower, with one broadside and launch bays on each side.  Then again, my RT tended to solve problems with smooth talking and some behind the scenes plotting.  He abhored combat as a means of solving problems, and only did so when he could dictate the terms.  

 

I'm sure Tzeentch was not disappoint.



#18 javcs

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 12:18 PM

We're running a Star Galleon Carrier in our campaign. Four launch bays plus a hold bay conversion for 12 points of launch strength. It's been an interesting campaign with no guns to speak of, closer to a battlestar than a out and out warship.

 

Good points is that we have an entire fleet at our command and it makes the ship extremely versatile. Bad points would be the sheer amount of space those bays take up, limiting what else we might want.

Battlestars have main battery guns, though they weren't really used. And a missile battery for nukes, but that a limited use sort of thing. Battlestars are sort of Star Destroyer-ish analogues.

 

And now I want to figure out how you'd spec battlestars and star destroyers, or their analogues, in RT. They'd have to be isolated pocket empires, probably, maybe with more retained/recovered/reinvented/new tech than the Imperium in general has in certain areas. Bah. Table that for later.

 

 

Back on topic ... going Straight Carrier is only good if you aren't taking heavy small craft losses, and/or have the logistical support capability to sustain those losses.

Asymmetric ships may sound good in theory ... but are easy for a GM to turn into a really bad idea.

On a personal level, I tend to either go for versatility or heavy specialization. If it's a solo ship, versatility is good - and/or a degree of stealth specialization, but if it's usually going to have one or more escorts, heavier specialization is acceptable.



#19 Errant Knight

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 04:40 PM

RAW, you can go heavily specialized with a carrier.  Carriers (once again RAW) don't need escorts.  The small craft do everything.  We've gone that route and it can be very frustrating for the GM, in that everything thrown at the intrepid explorers gets added to the Dynasty's fleet in short order.  It's ridiculously easy to minimize small craft losses.  The only set back in our current campaign was blasting a Chaos cruiser so badly it imploded and sucked half the carriers air wings into the Warp with it.  The same thing happened in a past campaign.  Shame on me for forgetting that particular possibility.



#20 The_Shaman

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 03:06 AM

Ok, in general do you think a star galleon with a broadside and carrier bay on either side will do ok in battle? I am a bit worried at having only a single gun (apart from the small craft) to point at anyone. Also, would a single carrier bay be enough to make a significant difference?






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