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#61 Glaurung

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:17 PM

Seems like there is a lot of pretense from both sides in this thread. Regardless, AH was the board game that opened up this wonderful hobby to me and my wife. It will always have a special place in our hearts. We are now board game enthusiasts that own and play a myriad of board/card games. We own a ton of games in all genres and enjoy them all, hardcore war games being the exception.
Having said that, I'm in the camp that feels AH is a bloated beast. We played our first game of EH last night and lost a close game. Very fun and full of great theme. We both had a blast and this is a game that will now hit the table to satisfy our Cthulhu itch. We are both huge fans of Lovecraft as an aside. For us, this game "fixes" what was wrong with AH. I imagine, for some, AH will still be the game of choice. That's awesome and I'm certainly not pretentious enough to say they're wrong or silly. I ask the same respect in return.
Finally, I think people needs to realize these are simply games that are played for pleasure. No game is objectively better or worse than the other. It's all subjective in the end. Happy gaming everyone!


agree with you 100% good points
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Wizard is never late.......

#62 suicidepuppet

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 07:33 PM

Seems like there is a lot of pretense from both sides in this thread. Regardless, AH was the board game that opened up this wonderful hobby to me and my wife. It will always have a special place in our hearts. We are now board game enthusiasts that own and play a myriad of board/card games. We own a ton of games in all genres and enjoy them all, hardcore war games being the exception.

Having said that, I'm in the camp that feels AH is a bloated beast. We played our first game of EH last night and lost a close game. Very fun and full of great theme. We both had a blast and this is a game that will now hit the table to satisfy our Cthulhu itch. We are both huge fans of Lovecraft as an aside. For us, this game "fixes" what was wrong with AH. I imagine, for some, AH will still be the game of choice. That's awesome and I'm certainly not pretentious enough to say they're wrong or silly. I ask the same respect in return.

Finally, I think people needs to realize these are simply games that are played for pleasure. No game is objectively better or worse than the other. It's all subjective in the end. Happy gaming everyone!

 

See, even in this post which says that they are 'games to be played for pleasure. No game is objectively better or worse than the other.' there is a slap at Arkham being a 'bloated beast' which is an insult. If you had just made your post and left that out it would be one thing but I'm not a 'boardgamer' I'm a wargamer of 41 years and quite frankly if you hand me a game with a one page rule sheet I'll hand it back. I look for depth and replay value in a game. I'm not interested in learning a set of rules that I will be bored with after the first day of play and have to turn around and learn a new set tomorrow.

 

Arkham is the only board game I have bought in decades because it provided that depth and variety of play. Besides wargames I am a long time player of RPGs and I think that is why Arkham really caught on with me. It is very much a lite RPG boardgame which is almost impossible to do. And I had looked at a number of games that I realized I would burn through in short order before deciding on Arkham.

 

If you want to understand what is going on in the 'versus' situation notice that threads everywhere, not just here, are being started by new Eldritch players and not by Arkham players. The response usually comes from an Arkham player and I'm afraid until the Eldritch fans get it through their heads that they can play their game without being condescending to players of other games that this will just continue.

 

It truly has sucked the fun out of playing Arkham for me and I honestly question how much longer I will keep it on the shelf. If the bickering continues I believe I will just sell mine and invest the cash back into games that people aren't fighting over. It's no fun when the community that once was helpful and peaceful has turned into a mud slinging contest (and community was 50% of what convinced me to buy the system).


Edited by suicidepuppet, 08 January 2014 - 07:51 PM.


#63 The Professor

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:34 PM

suicidepuppet,

 

     As a complete aside, I don't know if you're part of ConSimWorld, but I wanted to bring to your attention a WW II strategic level game entitled The War: Europe 1939-1945.  In my opinion, it's the best one I've seen (or play-tested) in years.

 

Cheers,

Joe


Edited by The Professor, 08 January 2014 - 08:34 PM.

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#64 suicidepuppet

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 09:35 PM

suicidepuppet,

 

     As a complete aside, I don't know if you're part of ConSimWorld, but I wanted to bring to your attention a WW II strategic level game entitled The War: Europe 1939-1945.  In my opinion, it's the best one I've seen (or play-tested) in years.

 

Cheers,

Joe

 

Thanks Professor...and yes...CSW is my home away from home :)

 

I'll take a closer look at it...I'm currently trying to get the 2nd version of Totaler Krieg! to the table...a LOT of work to get it playable.

 

Would you say that TW:E falls closer to A World at War (the latest version of Third Reich...and a real beast - 216 page rulebook...plus other supplements...man o man) or Totaler Krieg! (more of a mini-monster with an alternate history generator to play 'what ifs' with) ?



#65 The Professor

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 09:58 PM

suicidepuppet,

 

     I've been working closely with ernie copley since it's release in 2012 and I would say it's definitely what Third Reich desperately wanted to be...but never quite pulled it off.  At 117 pages, it's not anemic in size, either, but it's so very well-written and captures the essence of Economics, Diplomacy, varying Nationality Levels which affects combat, and Variants which provide the alternate history stuff.  I would recommend reading the two reviews over at BGG (one by Michael A. and me) if you have a chance.  You can actually read the rules over at the Compass Games website.  I'm not a Total Krieg! player, so I can't comment on that game or its similarities.

 

Cheers,

Joe


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#66 suicidepuppet

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:00 PM

suicidepuppet,

 

     I've been working closely with ernie copley since it's release in 2012 and I would say it's definitely what Third Reich desperately wanted to be...but never quite pulled it off.  At 117 pages, it's not anemic in size, either, but it's so very well-written and captures the essence of Economics, Diplomacy, varying Nationality Levels which affects combat, and Variants which provide the alternate history stuff.  I would recommend reading the two reviews over at BGG (one by Michael A. and me) if you have a chance.  You can actually read the rules over at the Compass Games website.  I'm not a Total Krieg! player, so I can't comment on that game or its similarities.

 

Cheers,

Joe

 

Just checked out the website. If that artwork is anywhere close to the actual production they have a winner on their hands. Great map/counter contrast. Very nice.

 

I have been meaning to pick up something from them. Now I'll have to start paying attention.

 

Oh, and it would fall toward the AWaW end a little more than the Totaler Krieg! version I have (The latest version of TK! is the Axis Empires:Totaler Krieg and is twice as big as the first DG version and now has a PTO standalone that you can hook the two together...The 'mini monster' size seemed like a good place to start :) )

 

Thanks for the heads up on this. It hits a lot of the right buttons for me.


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#67 Dargone

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 03:18 AM

Seems like there is a lot of pretense from both sides in this thread. Regardless, AH was the board game that opened up this wonderful hobby to me and my wife. It will always have a special place in our hearts. We are now board game enthusiasts that own and play a myriad of board/card games. We own a ton of games in all genres and enjoy them all, hardcore war games being the exception.
Having said that, I'm in the camp that feels AH is a bloated beast. We played our first game of EH last night and lost a close game. Very fun and full of great theme. We both had a blast and this is a game that will now hit the table to satisfy our Cthulhu itch. We are both huge fans of Lovecraft as an aside. For us, this game "fixes" what was wrong with AH. I imagine, for some, AH will still be the game of choice. That's awesome and I'm certainly not pretentious enough to say they're wrong or silly. I ask the same respect in return.
Finally, I think people needs to realize these are simply games that are played for pleasure. No game is objectively better or worse than the other. It's all subjective in the end. Happy gaming everyone!

 
See, even in this post which says that they are 'games to be played for pleasure. No game is objectively better or worse than the other.' there is a slap at Arkham being a 'bloated beast' which is an insult. If you had just made your post and left that out it would be one thing but I'm not a 'boardgamer' I'm a wargamer of 41 years and quite frankly if you hand me a game with a one page rule sheet I'll hand it back. I look for depth and replay value in a game. I'm not interested in learning a set of rules that I will be bored with after the first day of play and have to turn around and learn a new set tomorrow.
 
Arkham is the only board game I have bought in decades because it provided that depth and variety of play. Besides wargames I am a long time player of RPGs and I think that is why Arkham really caught on with me. It is very much a lite RPG boardgame which is almost impossible to do. And I had looked at a number of games that I realized I would burn through in short order before deciding on Arkham.
 
If you want to understand what is going on in the 'versus' situation notice that threads everywhere, not just here, are being started by new Eldritch players and not by Arkham players. The response usually comes from an Arkham player and I'm afraid until the Eldritch fans get it through their heads that they can play their game without being condescending to players of other games that this will just continue.
 
It truly has sucked the fun out of playing Arkham for me and I honestly question how much longer I will keep it on the shelf. If the bickering continues I believe I will just sell mine and invest the cash back into games that people aren't fighting over. It's no fun when the community that once was helpful and peaceful has turned into a mud slinging contest (and community was 50% of what convinced me to buy the system).


Cool. I'm an RPG guy since the late seventies and I agree that AH has some great RPG elements. I think EH does too. I stand by my comment that, for me, AH is a bloated beast. Sometimes less really is more; at least for me. I'm really not concerned about "insulting" a board game. To be clear, even though I know you're not espousing this, I'm certainly not insulting those who prefer AH over EH.

Again, it's all subjective in the end. I respect your opinion and can tell that you're passionate about AH. That's awesome. Gaming is a great hobby whether it pertains to RPGs, board games or war games. As I said, I've been an RPG guy for a long time and it has only been the last few years that I've discovered the plethora of fantastic board games available. In fact, I actually prefer board gaming now because it's something that my wife and I share together.

I do think it's silly to sell/stop playing a game because people are bickering over it. I will enjoy EH regardless of whether or not people think it's a dumbed down version of AH or simply a horrible game. It's not going to affect my life or gaming habits.

#68 suicidepuppet

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 04:31 PM

 

 

Seems like there is a lot of pretense from both sides in this thread. Regardless, AH was the board game that opened up this wonderful hobby to me and my wife. It will always have a special place in our hearts. We are now board game enthusiasts that own and play a myriad of board/card games. We own a ton of games in all genres and enjoy them all, hardcore war games being the exception.
Having said that, I'm in the camp that feels AH is a bloated beast. We played our first game of EH last night and lost a close game. Very fun and full of great theme. We both had a blast and this is a game that will now hit the table to satisfy our Cthulhu itch. We are both huge fans of Lovecraft as an aside. For us, this game "fixes" what was wrong with AH. I imagine, for some, AH will still be the game of choice. That's awesome and I'm certainly not pretentious enough to say they're wrong or silly. I ask the same respect in return.
Finally, I think people needs to realize these are simply games that are played for pleasure. No game is objectively better or worse than the other. It's all subjective in the end. Happy gaming everyone!

 
See, even in this post which says that they are 'games to be played for pleasure. No game is objectively better or worse than the other.' there is a slap at Arkham being a 'bloated beast' which is an insult. If you had just made your post and left that out it would be one thing but I'm not a 'boardgamer' I'm a wargamer of 41 years and quite frankly if you hand me a game with a one page rule sheet I'll hand it back. I look for depth and replay value in a game. I'm not interested in learning a set of rules that I will be bored with after the first day of play and have to turn around and learn a new set tomorrow.
 
Arkham is the only board game I have bought in decades because it provided that depth and variety of play. Besides wargames I am a long time player of RPGs and I think that is why Arkham really caught on with me. It is very much a lite RPG boardgame which is almost impossible to do. And I had looked at a number of games that I realized I would burn through in short order before deciding on Arkham.
 
If you want to understand what is going on in the 'versus' situation notice that threads everywhere, not just here, are being started by new Eldritch players and not by Arkham players. The response usually comes from an Arkham player and I'm afraid until the Eldritch fans get it through their heads that they can play their game without being condescending to players of other games that this will just continue.
 
It truly has sucked the fun out of playing Arkham for me and I honestly question how much longer I will keep it on the shelf. If the bickering continues I believe I will just sell mine and invest the cash back into games that people aren't fighting over. It's no fun when the community that once was helpful and peaceful has turned into a mud slinging contest (and community was 50% of what convinced me to buy the system).


Cool. I'm an RPG guy since the late seventies and I agree that AH has some great RPG elements. I think EH does too. I stand by my comment that, for me, AH is a bloated beast. Sometimes less really is more; at least for me. I'm really not concerned about "insulting" a board game. To be clear, even though I know you're not espousing this, I'm certainly not insulting those who prefer AH over EH.

Again, it's all subjective in the end. I respect your opinion and can tell that you're passionate about AH. That's awesome. Gaming is a great hobby whether it pertains to RPGs, board games or war games. As I said, I've been an RPG guy for a long time and it has only been the last few years that I've discovered the plethora of fantastic board games available. In fact, I actually prefer board gaming now because it's something that my wife and I share together.

I do think it's silly to sell/stop playing a game because people are bickering over it. I will enjoy EH regardless of whether or not people think it's a dumbed down version of AH or simply a horrible game. It's not going to affect my life or gaming habits.

 

 

See, the community is at least 50% of the game to me and all that happens now in places like BGG is bickering and fighting. You can't start a thread in the AH forum without someone coming in claiming that EH is better or that's why they made EH. And no one stops off topic posting so it turns into a fire fight and someone ends up suspended. (I've been suspended three times since the game was released and I haven't let loose on anyone to any degree).

 

The sad part is how many of the veterans are disappearing because they are tired of the whole mess. So I guess it's done, at least for me.

 

Wargames are a whole different story for me. I prefer to play solo, most grogs are grumpy butts and you can't stop a game you're playing with someone to watch a documentary right in the middle of the game on the topic to better understand the conflict (which I often do). It's a completely different head for me.

 

Arkham was a social thing. Now it's turned into something like the D&D edition wars over at Wizards and I'm just not interested in that type of scene.



#69 Ken at Sunrise

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 07:19 AM

I will agree that some forums are unnecessarily bitter.  I've almost completely stopped posting over at the X-Wing forum here at FFG because of the attitude and attacks there.  It's just not worth being a proponent of the game.  Sigh...

 

I'm not sure why this thread has gone on so long.  If you have a review, cool, if your specifically contributing something about the game fine.  But I've seen (for example Star Wars: X-Wing and Star Trek: Attack Wing) people going to the other's forum to say how great their own game is.  What's the point of that.


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#70 Sinthioth

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 03:48 PM

Actually I gotta say that despite (because of?) the nature of the original poster, this is simultaneously the most discussion-intensive AND lounging thread I have ever seen on an FFG forum. It's become equal parts heated debate and friendly game recommendations...feels like I'm actually in the local game store, lol!



#71 Ken at Sunrise

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 12:59 PM

Actually I gotta say that despite (because of?) the nature of the original poster, this is simultaneously the most discussion-intensive AND lounging thread I have ever seen on an FFG forum. It's become equal parts heated debate

 

You should check out the 14 page discussions over at the Star Wars Forum.






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