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What will 'Force & Destiny' look like?


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#521 jaethe77

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 10:31 AM

 

Padawan, Jedi Knight, Jedi Master are all titles more in  line with Duke, lord, King, etc. Same goes for the Sith. Darth Vader is a Fringer/Jedi Guardian/Ace Pilot/Sith marauder (based purely on conjecture from guesses about F&D) not a Sith career with a Darth spec. Likewise for Luke, he's a Fringer/Jedi Guardian/? not a Fringer/Jedi padawan/Jedi knight/etc. :)

As always...I'm fine with being proven wrong.

 

I fully expect to see a Jedi career with Guardian (adherents to a more martial aspect of the force. more deadly attack, lethal strike, toughness, etc in their talent tree), Consular (adherents to a more mystical aspect of the force in their trree, focusing on talents like balance, overwhelm emotions, maybe a second +1 force rating on the bottom row, etc), and Sentinels (adherents to a more spy like aspect with a focus on walking the dark in search of Sith/Dark side force users, stealth and extra resistance to dark side powers/Influence, etc).

 

I expect the career to have Melee, Lightsabre, Vigilance, Pilot (space), Pilot (planetary), Know (Lore), Brawl, and Leadership (I SO want to see battle meditation in the guardian/consular tree! Right now, I've been using a combination of Inspiring rhetoric and  Field Leader to mimic it.) 

Assuming the 5 point perception/discipline become career skills is still on the trees.

 

Guardian spec skills will likely be Athletics, Lightsabre, Resilience, Coercion

Consular spec will likely have Cool, Negotiation, Charm, Leadership

Sentinel Spec will likely have Stealth, Vigilance, streetwise, survival

 

This is my guess for F&D...now Gencon just needs to get here. :(

The d20 references... they burn....

 

Hoping F&D is a lot like a system that is known for jedi being horribly unbalanced, isn't what I would call a good thing.  WoTC took D&D and reskinned it with Star Wars.  That's not the Star Wars we want.  Seems to be so many want F&D to come out just so they can hopefully have completely broken characters from the start compared to others.  Go back to the d20 way of, Jedi!, or what's the point.    

 

FFG has a chance here to do something unique, and they've been building on it with the two books they have.  The force is subtle, it takes time, and patience to learn to use it well.  I really hope they don't just throw it all away with F&D.

 

Everyone wants to play prequel movie jedis, in original trilogy setting... sound a little off to you?

 

I also don't think people are understanding just how extrememly rare a force sensitive that hasn't been killed or corrupted yet is.  Even during the height of the republic the number of jedi compared to a whole GALAXY was SUPER EXTREMEMLY SMALL.

 

This is the setting, you start as an episode IV Luke, not an episode I Obi-Wan.

 

 

I don't hope F&D is anything like Saga. The absurd power levels of force users in Saga was a flaw of the system, not the concept itself. My agreement with Guardian/Consular/Sentinel as specs within a Jedi career being the right way to go does not detract, in any way, FFGs fantastic and balanced system. I'm excited to see F&D simply because it "completes" this system and if FFG loses the license or anything else happens I'll still have a full system to run star wars without major house ruling.

My biggest concern is how/when players will get lightsabres in the game after F&D is out. If Jedi and Sith characters start with them for "free" (I.E. not having to buy them) then I'll have to see how FFG mitigates the power of the lightsabre in non restricted eras. Not everyone can run around with cortosis armor/weapons.

 

As for the "super extremely small" part...it's relative.  Sentients of Han solo/R2-D2/Chewbacca/etc capability are extremely rare in comparison to the whole galaxy. The entire point of playing this game is to be special. :)

 

I expect F&D to be fairly well balanced, with my only concern likely to be lightsabres, as I mentioned above. With force powers costing experience like everything else, this emulates the WEG days of force power buying which still made force users powerful but restricted since they had to choose powers or skills or both. They couldn't be good at much else than the force unless they were very powerful. The problem people in WEG jedi were the "spend everything on lightsabre and force ability" people and that's not going to change regardless of system. In saga I made a few simple house rules to bring jedi back in line with other classes. Skill focus, for everyone, was a +1 for each rank the character had in the skill up to +5. This way the character was taking a feat that basically made their skill 1 rank/level instead of 1 rank/2 levels up to level 10. It worked really well. It's been a while so I don't recall off hand what else I changed but the skill focus rule was the main one.



#522 Morbieus

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 01:41 PM

While it is possible that FFG may go in a different direction with the F&D book, they have set a precedent with the first two. Six careers, 18 specs. I would be surprised if they changed it. Especially to a leveling system such as Padawan/Knight/Master. But I can be surprised. The guardian/consular/sentinal careers allow them to define certain aspects of being a Jedi and doesn't mean you can not be a generalist (dip into different spec trees). I think that is more likely, due to that helping people decide a direction, than something more general and open-ended.

 

And just because they are focusing on the Original Trilogy does not mean they are beholden to it. Luke's path to become a Jedi does not have to be the the same for all characters. They will, most likely, have character creation so that you can start as Jedi or other Force-users out of the gate. Not drastically powerful, as I think it is their intention to balance progression, but you will be able to create Force-users out of the gate.

 

All three books are designed to work together. While they focused on the OT, characters can really be run in any era. To forgo that in F&D and come out with a system where you need to be coming from one or both of the earlier books would be foolish and go against them coming out with a stand alone Core Book, which is what F&D is supposed to be. If you want to simulate Luke's path you'll be able to, just start taking specs from the F&D book after progressing through one or both of the others. It's as simple as that.

I never said you'd need the other books, I'm pretty sure F&D will have new "Gain Force Rating 1" specializations.

 

All the information in the current core books, focuses on the current time period, directly after the destruction of the first Death Star.  Yes you can run prequel era, or do new jedi era stuff if you want, but that isn't the intended setting.  They dont need to flesh out a book so they can better have these characters in other eras, because they aren't focusing on them.



#523 Morbieus

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 01:58 PM

http://gsa.thegamern...tar-wars-plans/

 

That doesn't sound so bad to me.  Closer to kind of what I  was thinking a collection of specializations with different requirments to buy into them, and   if its like an epic level handbook, then that kind of works.



#524 mouthymerc

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 02:14 PM

You should check out Donovon's other article on the sourcebook that was going to combine ellements of mandalorians, Kyshaak and ewoks. Itbwas right on the money too.

Creating a book of "epic" specs and such goes against FFG's aim to have the games able to integrate together. Hence the reason I don't see them straying from the formula already put forth in EotE and AoR.

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#525 Desslok

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 02:42 PM

http://gsa.thegamern...tar-wars-plans/

 

That doesn't sound so bad to me.  Closer to kind of what I  was thinking a collection of specializations with different requirments to buy into them, and   if its like an epic level handbook, then that kind of works.

 

You might want to read the follow up news report here . . .



#526 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 07:49 PM

You should check out Donovon's other article on the sourcebook that was going to combine ellements of mandalorians, Kyshaak and ewoks. Itbwas right on the money too.

Creating a book of "epic" specs and such goes against FFG's aim to have the games able to integrate together. Hence the reason I don't see them straying from the formula already put forth in EotE and AoR.

That one was Fiddleback's contribution.

 

I'd almost swear he's got a think for Ackmena :lol:

 

But yeah, to anyone reading those articles, be sure to read the follow-up at the end of the article or that Desslok provided a link to.


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#527 Morbieus

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 10:25 PM

So for everyone hoping to start as a jedi.  How do you see this fitting in both setting wise and balance wise?  Can't start with a lightsaber and/or lightsaber skill, not while claiming balance at least.  Jedi are basically non-existant at this point, so the massive training required to say Jedi is my career...   we know of a whole THREE full cannon jedi during this era... Obi-Wan, Yoda, and the lead from the upcoming Star Wars Rebels.    



#528 HappyDaze

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 10:28 PM

So for everyone hoping to start as a jedi.  How do you see this fitting in both setting wise and balance wise?  Can't start with a lightsaber and/or lightsaber skill, not while claiming balance at least.  Jedi are basically non-existant at this point, so the massive training required to say Jedi is my career...   we know of a whole THREE full cannon jedi during this era... Obi-Wan, Yoda, and the lead from the upcoming Star Wars Rebels.    

Starting with a lightsaber is going to be tough to balance since other characters get such a limited value of personal gear. OTOH, starting with the Lightsaber skill itself is hardly unbalancing. It's a skill and it's no more powerful than any other skill.


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#529 Josep Maria

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 02:18 AM

Bon dia! (Good morning)

 

Yesterday I was discussing with a friends about Jedi Careers and Specializations. The main idea we get in that moment that based on movies and TV shows, there isn't so much training differences between one Jedi and another.

 

Almost every Jedi uses the same powers, same skills, same knowledges... Seems that there isn't a big difference between one Jedi and another. They have a strict instruction and maybe almost the same. Only a few of them we can say that have something "special".

 

Differences to consider are mainly:

 

- Lightsaber form style like fast and strong.

- Some Jedi are a bit more focused on diplomatic skills.

- Some sentences where they say that "It's a great pilot".

 

One Jedi can be better warrior, pilot, diplomatic than another but, they have a REALLY close training between them. Maybe there isn't a real need to separate Jedis in the classical "consular, guardian, sentinel". Maybe some of them just pick up a few extra skills or a foreign Specialization from Commander to become a better tacticia, Pilot from Ace or Ambassador from Diplomatic.

 

By the way, I have to review the Clone Wars Series to have a more accurate references but the main impression its that almost all Jedi are the same, with differences mainly based on attitude, style and XP difference but not in "different classes" itself.

 

Opinions?


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#530 Sylrae

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 03:02 AM

Honestly, I'm hoping that Force and Destiny isn't just for original trilogy Jedi.

 

I much prefer TOR Jedi, even though I'm not a fan of the bad writing, plot holes, and nonsense that seems rampant in the prequel trilogy. But TOR Comics, and KOTOR 1/2? Yes Please. 100 Years after the original trilogy was pretty good too.

 

And yes. I'm aware that all the parts I liked most about the star wars franchise are potentially no longer canon; which is really too bad. But those are still the time periods I am likely to want to run a game in, if/when I run a FFG Starwars game that's actually in the star wars universe rather than a homebrew mashup SciFi Setting.

 

As for how to balance playing a Jedi with a handful of cool powers and lightsabers against the characters in the other game lines? Seems straightforward to me.

1. All characters are starting with 10k+ in starting funds rather than 500. At least enough to buy a lightsaber and some other basic gear (maybe some armor, etc).

2. Have characters do regular character creation as per AoR/EotE.

3. Give all characters a bunch of extra exp that doesn't count as starting exp (maybe an extra 100-200?)

4. ???

5. Profit.

 

The trick is going to be: How balanced are force powers against a bunch of equally priced options? If you build two characters both with +300xp, one who is force focused, and one who is not, are the characters equally able to contribute to a party? The thing is: *They Should Be.*

 

The danger is: Did FFG do a good enough job balancing higher level play for that to be the case? I honestly don't know, but I hope so. If they didn't, then they need to adjust prices until that is the case, and if Force Powers aren't as good as buying ranks in skills & talents for the same number of xp, or if force powers are just better, fix the prices or power up/power down the powers. A good amount of number crunching with a wide variety of exp levels (say, 0-1300 [52 games at max xp]) should go into it, and -THEN- they should put it out and playtest it.


Edited by Sylrae, 22 February 2014 - 03:12 AM.


#531 mouthymerc

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 04:15 AM

Canon means little to nothing as regards gameplay. The players are the stars, not Obi-Wan or Yoda or Luke. Therefore there needs to be character creation that allows for many types of characters. Most likely F&D will focus on creating Force-using characters where it is a primary factor, unlike EotE or AoR where it is a secondary factor. An they will want to give the tools to allow people to run games in any era, not just the OT. Just because they are using the OT as a reference does not mean they are only going to supply such narrowly focused rules.


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#532 Kager

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 07:13 AM

F&D core rulebook will most likely focus on the original three movies (like EotE and AOR core rulebooks) and then move on to video game powers in supplements. Personally, I hope they do it this way, i find alot of the video game powers to be very camp.

#533 mouthymerc

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 09:28 AM

The powers will be the five we've got so far plus a few new ones. Healing, injury, plus any other abilities deemed important to have its own power.

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#534 Paladin132

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 09:50 AM

The powers will be the five we've got so far plus a few new ones. Healing, injury, plus any other abilities deemed important to have its own power.


That seems pretty limited doesn't it? I wonder what mechanism will exist to improve force rating.

#535 2P51

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 10:02 AM

Same as exists now, I presume through the talent trees that will be offered.  I have a question as to whether we will see the traditional gamer class names for those various trees and whether they will function precisely the same as the careers do.  I am sure we will see more than a single talent tree though beyond the first two books Exile/Emergent trees.



#536 ScooterinAB

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 05:43 PM

Bon dia! (Good morning)

 

Yesterday I was discussing with a friends about Jedi Careers and Specializations. The main idea we get in that moment that based on movies and TV shows, there isn't so much training differences between one Jedi and another.

 

Almost every Jedi uses the same powers, same skills, same knowledges... Seems that there isn't a big difference between one Jedi and another. They have a strict instruction and maybe almost the same. Only a few of them we can say that have something "special".

 

Differences to consider are mainly:

 

- Lightsaber form style like fast and strong.

- Some Jedi are a bit more focused on diplomatic skills.

- Some sentences where they say that "It's a great pilot".

 

One Jedi can be better warrior, pilot, diplomatic than another but, they have a REALLY close training between them. Maybe there isn't a real need to separate Jedis in the classical "consular, guardian, sentinel". Maybe some of them just pick up a few extra skills or a foreign Specialization from Commander to become a better tacticia, Pilot from Ace or Ambassador from Diplomatic.

 

By the way, I have to review the Clone Wars Series to have a more accurate references but the main impression its that almost all Jedi are the same, with differences mainly based on attitude, style and XP difference but not in "different classes" itself.

 

Opinions?

 

I would really have to agree with your thoughts. Someone mentioned the idea of Jedi not actually being a career but at least one specialization. In d20, there was this confined idea of sticking with your class. But that's not there in FFG Star Wars. I could definitely see Jedi coloring their abilities with other specializations, rather than needing to be divided and different from the start. With the idea of picking up other specializations not being an act of desertion of one's career, all of the d20 baggage about multi classing and advancing in non-Jedi classes goes out the window.

 

While I would't say that all Jedi are the same, I will further extrapolate on your point by saying that it was their other skills and abilities (as well as personalities) that made them differ. Perhaps that all Jedi basically do have the same powers, and it is those other advancements that make them different rather than some fabricated Jedi quality.

 

On the thought of lightsabers, I can maybe see this either being a later-game story mechanic or even an event triggered by a specialization tree. Instead of handing out 10 000 credits worth of gear (which any smart player would hock for a repeating blaster and some rad armor), Jedi still have to work for their glow rod. Perhaps they gain access to a talent that provides them with the knowledge to build lightsabers, thus allowing that action to take place. While Luke did have a lightsaber as soon as the blasters started firing in New Hope, he really didn't use it until Empire, and not terribly often until Cloud City and his fight with Vader. It wasn't until Jedi when Luke actually used his lightsaber with any frequency or skill. And we are still playing in the Empire, so waving that crap around is still a bad idea; you'll want to be an accomplished Jedi, with the Force as your ally, before daring to draw that much aggro.

 

@mouthymerc: I highly doubt there will be any tools for playing in other eras. Why? Because EoE and AoR have no such things. Unless F&D wildly deviates from what FFG is doing, the game will be set during the Rebellion Era. While that doesn't prevent GM's from changing the setting, it is pure and baseless wishlisting to say that there will be any discussion of other settings; it will be up to the GM, not FFG.

 

I'm honestly happy with other settings happening later or not at all. By hyper-focusing on the Rebellion Era, it keeps FFG focused instead of flying all over the place trying to please people and properly represent each setting. Rebellion works. And honestly, the Jedi are the most interesting when they are at risk and fighting against the odds, rather than being the metric everything is measured by.


Edited by ScooterinAB, 22 February 2014 - 05:51 PM.

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#537 mouthymerc

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 06:18 PM

 

@mouthymerc: I highly doubt there will be any tools for playing in other eras. Why? Because EoE and AoR have no such things. Unless F&D wildly deviates from what FFG is doing, the game will be set during the Rebellion Era. While that doesn't prevent GM's from changing the setting, it is pure and baseless wishlisting to say that there will be any discussion of other settings; it will be up to the GM, not FFG.

 

The tools I am referring to are the fact that while the EotE and AoR games are using the original trilogy as a reference, you could create and run characters in any era using those books. I believe the same will be for F&D. Which is why I say they are not beholden to the fact that canon says there are only these few Jedi around. They will have the tools to create a character that started as a Jedi, not that came to it later after being a fringer or a bounty hunter or a soldier. I also think they will stick to their 6 careers/18 specs design too. Having a singular Jedi career would be too limiting. And they are designing a book that can be used on its own, so they will not depend on people taking specs from other books to round out their character. They will have different careers and specs within the Jedi that you can cherry pick from.


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#538 Morbieus

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 07:13 PM

Canon means little to nothing as regards gameplay. The players are the stars, not Obi-Wan or Yoda or Luke. Therefore there needs to be character creation that allows for many types of characters. Most likely F&D will focus on creating Force-using characters where it is a primary factor, unlike EotE or AoR where it is a secondary factor. An they will want to give the tools to allow people to run games in any era, not just the OT. Just because they are using the OT as a reference does not mean they are only going to supply such narrowly focused rules.

 

 

The powers will be the five we've got so far plus a few new ones. Healing, injury, plus any other abilities deemed important to have its own power.


That seems pretty limited doesn't it? I wonder what mechanism will exist to improve force rating.

 

There already is a mechanism to improve fore rating. The Force Ratings talents, lol.  As for being limited?   Only powers we don't have access to from the movies currently, is the choke and the lightning



#539 Morbieus

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 07:19 PM

 

The powers will be the five we've got so far plus a few new ones. Healing, injury, plus any other abilities deemed important to have its own power.


That seems pretty limited doesn't it? I wonder what mechanism will exist to improve force rating.

 

There already is a mechanism to improve force rating. The Force Ratings talents, lol.  As for being limited?   Only powers we don't have access to from the movies currently, is the choke and the lightning.

 

Im playing in a weekly game been running many months now.  Hired Gun (mercenary soldier), force sensitive exile, and just bought access to force sensitive emergent.  I've gotten sense, all down the left side for all the commit upgrades, and a range upgrade and the thoughts upgrade for basic sense.  Also have the enhance power having bought the coordination skill upgrade and the first of the force leaps.  1 rank in lightsaber at 50xp per rank.  Plan on picking up forsee and influence soon.  Get the mind trick and inititiave boosts at least.  The powers aren't as limiting as they seem.  IMO, this is the best RPG system so far for repesenting the force, both its subtlness and its power.


Edited by Morbieus, 22 February 2014 - 07:26 PM.





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