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Blademaster


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#1 dava100

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 05:42 AM

Blademaster
Tier: 3
Prerequisite: Weapon Skill 30, Weapon Training (any melee)
Aptitudes: Weapon Skill, Finesse
The Acolyte’s mastery of bladed weapons and their martial
disciplines has no peer. When attacking with any bladed weapon,
including chainswords, axes, and power swords, he can re-roll one
missed attack per Round.
 
Apart from the talent being called blademaster why are blunt weapons excluded? I would like to see the name of the talent changed to 'Weapon Master' and melee concussion weapons included in the effect. This will help increase the variety of weapons characters use, otherwise everyone just runs about with sword type weapons as re-roll is a powerful talent and a must have when available.

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#2 GauntZero

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 05:52 AM

I agree. It should be "Melee Weapon Type" (chose one) Master. ;)


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#3 dava100

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 06:04 AM

I agree. It should be "Melee Weapon Type" (chose one) Master. ;)

 

I would be fine if it was a choice between weapon types instead of covering everything with a single purchase of the talent.

 

Are there any weapons that would be hard to classify into blade or blunt? What would you assign flexible weapons to or would that be another weapon type?


Edited by dava100, 27 December 2013 - 06:05 AM.

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#4 Covered in Weasels

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:57 PM

I don't have much experience with high-level DH play, but it seems to me that "blunt" weapons like the power fist far outstrip the power sword in raw damage potential. There's a whole slew of Offence-based talents that encourage the use of Unwieldy, high-damage weapons (Hammer Blow, Unrelenting Assault, etc) -- are these strong enough on their own to compete with Blademaster and other Finesse close combat talents, or do they need a "weapon master" type talent to match up well against blades.

With that said, I find it very strange that an eviscerator benefits from the Blademaster reroll while the much more precise power maul has no such talent available.

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#5 dava100

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 04:23 AM

I don't have much experience with high-level DH play, but it seems to me that "blunt" weapons like the power fist far outstrip the power sword in raw damage potential. There's a whole slew of Offence-based talents that encourage the use of Unwieldy, high-damage weapons (Hammer Blow, Unrelenting Assault, etc) -- are these strong enough on their own to compete with Blademaster and other Finesse close combat talents, or do they need a "weapon master" type talent to match up well against blades.

 

 

Those talents can also be used for bladed weapons though. If we want to make some talents work on blunt weapons only fine, but at the moment I think blunt weapons users are short changed on things like Blademaster and mono weapons.


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#6 Tom Cruise

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 04:25 AM

Doesn't mono specifically state it works on blunt weapons too? It did in DH1e.



#7 dava100

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 06:38 AM

Doesn't mono specifically state it works on blunt weapons too? It did in DH1e.

You're right about mono, my mistake.

I stand by my opinion though that blade master should change to include blunt weapons.

Edited by dava100, 29 December 2013 - 07:45 AM.

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#8 Tom Cruise

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 07:21 AM

Yeah I see no reason for the specificity of the talent when there's not much mechanical difference between blades and blunt weapons.



#9 GauntZero

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 07:39 AM

I would say it would even be better to make it "Weapon Master", where you have to chose 1 specific melee weapon (e.g. knife or sword or club) and you may buy the talent multiple times.


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#10 dava100

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 08:11 AM

I would say it would even be better to make it "Weapon Master", where you have to chose 1 specific melee weapon (e.g. knife or sword or club) and you may buy the talent multiple times.


If it was changed as per your spin on the idea would it warrant also changing the talent to a tier 2 so it would be a cheaper as you are getting less bang for your buck?

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#11 GauntZero

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 08:20 AM

If it was up to me, T2 sounds good.


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#12 cps

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 08:26 AM

Weapon Specialization was a shitty feat in D&D and it's a shitty talent now. Change it to weapon master and have it apply to everything so you can buy it once and be done with it.


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#13 dava100

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 08:38 AM

Change it to weapon master and have it apply to everything so you can buy it once and be done with it.


This would be my preference because it keeps things simple.


Edited by dava100, 29 December 2013 - 09:13 AM.

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#14 Covered in Weasels

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 01:50 PM

Change it to weapon master and have it apply to everything so you can buy it once and be done with it.

This would be my preference because it keeps things simple.

I played a fighter with Weapon Specialization in D&D 3.5, and I did not like the feat either. Nothing ruins the excitement of finding a magic sword in a dragon's treasure trove like realizing all your dwarven waraxe specialization feats won't work with it.

One universal Weapon Master feat sounds good to me.

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#15 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 03:18 PM

I am guessing that this exists to make swordsmen competitive at levels at which power fists and so forth start showing up.



#16 dava100

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 03:48 PM

I am guessing that this exists to make swordsmen competitive at levels at which power fists and so forth start showing up.


The Eviscerator is up there with the powerfist for damage potential so I don't buy that.

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#17 Alox

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 08:02 AM

I think that it should cover any weapon type.

 

I also think that it should only work on one handed weapons that are not "unwieldy".



#18 dava100

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 08:16 AM

I think that it should cover any weapon type.

I also think that it should only work on one handed weapons that are not "unwieldy".

Any particular reason you want to exclude unwieldy weapons which will exclude most if not all two handers?

Edited by dava100, 03 January 2014 - 08:17 AM.

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#19 Alox

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 09:30 AM

 

I think that it should cover any weapon type.

I also think that it should only work on one handed weapons that are not "unwieldy".

Any particular reason you want to exclude unwieldy weapons which will exclude most if not all two handers?

 

I have no particular desire to nerf two handed weapons.

 

Looking at the talent again, I cannot help but think that "blademaster" is a relic from the old combat system where one attack could only result in one hit. In this new combat system you can reroll a failed lightning attack for multiple hits. I wonder how this plays out, someone may have tried it out in Only War?


Edited by Alox, 03 January 2014 - 09:38 AM.


#20 Boss Gitsmasha

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 06:36 AM

What really grinds my gears is that Lightning Claws don't benefit from this, despite the fact that they were specifically designed to be wielded in pairs. Personally I think that Blademaster should encompass all melee weapons. Gunslinger encompasses all pistols, so why does this Talent discriminate?


"Oomans are pink an' soft, not tough an' green like da Boyz. Dey'z all da same size too, so dey'z always arguin' about who's in charge, 'cos dere's no way o' tellin' c'ept fer badges an' ooniforms an' fings. When one o' dem wants ta lord it over da uvvers, 'e says 'I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me', or 'I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good'. Da funny fing is, 'arf of 'em believe it an' da uvver 'arf don't, so 'e has ta hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. Wot a lot o' mukkin' about if yer asks me. An' while dey'z all arguin' wiv each uvver over who's da boss, da Orks can clobber da lot."





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