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Question about Dodge


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#41 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 08:59 PM

It's very difficult to have a character that does an average of 5-6 hits in Only War: a Genestealer -- the apex of meleedom -- with WS 65, Ambidextrous, Two-Weapon Wielder, Multiple Arms (4), and Lightning Attack has 5 hits on average. (If ya don't believe me, do the math. :) )

 

I don't get why people think that a high DoS standard attack should be hard to parry -- as if Degrees of Success were real things as opposed to an artifact of the the rules -- but that's another story.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 22 January 2014 - 09:01 PM.


#42 herichimo

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 08:03 AM

Interestingly, the genestealer was the exact example I had used to represent a character with a large number of attacks combined with high WS to parry most, if not all (on average, since there is no penalty to parry while there is for multiple attacks) attacks going his way.



#43 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 08:37 AM

I think the issue is more with parrying.

 

The Genestealer is supposed to carve apart things in close combat, and it only has an average of 5 hits. I don't think even the Keeper of Secrets as written up in BC gets more hits on average, but I'd have to do the math.



#44 pearldrum1

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 06:39 PM

****, how does Multiple Limbs affect melee attacks?



#45 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 08:36 PM

****, how does Multiple Limbs affect melee attacks?

 

In which game? They work differently in DH/RT/DW than in BC/OW.



#46 pearldrum1

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 09:28 PM

Ah, sorry. Deathwatch.



#47 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 09:33 PM

It gives you one extra attack in DW, if I remember right. So a Genestealer has four attacks (3 for Lightning Attack + 1 for Multiple Limbs).



#48 pearldrum1

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:16 AM

Oh wow, so a creature with swift attack and multiple limbs would have 4.

 

Remind me, swift attack/lightning attack does NOT stack with Furious Assault, right??



#49 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 06:13 AM

Oh wow, so a creature with swift attack and multiple limbs would have 4.

 

Remind me, swift attack/lightning attack does NOT stack with Furious Assault, right??

 

Right, Furious Assault is its own thing.

 

A creature with Swift Attack and Multiple Limbs would have 3.

 

Now it is unclear to me, and never explicitly spelled out in the books (in DC/RT/DW), how this interacts with Two-Weapon Wielder.

 

If you have a critter with Lightning Attack, Multiple Limbs, Ambidextrous, Two-Weapon Wielder, and scything talons and rending claws, does it have 3 attacks with lightning attack with one weapon + extra tattack from ML with main weapon + 1 attack from extra weapon? Or two attacks from extra weapon because it has 4 arms?



#50 Avdnm

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 06:44 AM

As far as I remember multiple arms only gives an extra attack to multi-attack actions, so I'd say no to extra attack for offhand. All in all, 4 Attacks with one + 1 attack with the other hand are quite enough ^^


Edited by Avdnm, 24 January 2014 - 06:46 AM.


#51 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 06:53 AM

As far as I remember multiple arms only gives an extra attack to multi-attack actions, so I'd say no to extra attack for offhand. All in all, 4 Attacks with one + 1 attack with the other hand are quite enough ^^

 

You would think so. :)

 

But in Mark of the Xenos several of the Tyranid critters are specifically set up to use Two-Weapon Wielder!


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 24 January 2014 - 06:54 AM.


#52 musungu

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:07 PM


But in Mark of the Xenos several of the Tyranid critters are specifically set up to use Two-Weapon Wielder!

 

 

True, but the Two-Weapon Wielder 'Nids don't have Lightning Attack. Imagine a Carnifex using that - now that would be genuine carnage.

Incidentally, Mark of the Xenos lists both Swift Attack and Lightning Attack among the talents of some baddies, like the Purestrain Genestealer and the Lictor. Does that mean it's up to the GM, or just sloppy editing? I'm planning to use both on Sunday, as the team got a bit overconfident, and I want to unleash something vicious on them, but I don't want to go overboard either.



#53 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:15 PM

 


But in Mark of the Xenos several of the Tyranid critters are specifically set up to use Two-Weapon Wielder!

 

 

True, but the Two-Weapon Wielder 'Nids don't have Lightning Attack. Imagine a Carnifex using that - now that would be genuine carnage.

Incidentally, Mark of the Xenos lists both Swift Attack and Lightning Attack among the talents of some baddies, like the Purestrain Genestealer and the Lictor. Does that mean it's up to the GM, or just sloppy editing? I'm planning to use both on Sunday, as the team got a bit overconfident, and I want to unleash something vicious on them, but I don't want to go overboard either.

 

 

Swift Attack is just the prerequisite for Lightning Attack, at least in Deathwatch.


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#54 herichimo

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 11:08 AM

Two Weapon Wielder gives 1 additional attack with the "off hand" but with a penalty applied to all attacks made.

 

When combined with Lightning/Swift Attack and Multiple Arms it still does exactly that.

 

A creature with Lightning Attack, Multiple Arms, and Two Weapon Wielder (lets just assume it has ambidextrous... the thing has 4 arms for crying out loud), can either:

1: Make 3 attacks with no penaltys.

2: Make 4 attacks with a -10 penalty to all attacks.

 

So it's just up to the GM whether he wants the guys to make that 1 extra attack. It could sometimes make a difference. Such as fighting a character with reaction+ wall of steel + step aside, or attacking a vehicle or static bunker (which count as unaware and helpless targets in melee, super easy to hit but have decent armor).


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#55 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 11:35 AM

However, Multiple Arms does not say that you need TWW to make an extra attack.

 

(It does say so in BC/OW, but they have a different mechanic for how it works.)






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