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Above and beyond, without Ascension


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#1 ColArana

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:31 AM

So while this is still a ways off for our playgroup (as we work our way towards Rank 4), my GM and I have browsed Ascension, seen plenty of comments on it, and would really prefer to avoid using it. That said, my GM is planning a long term campaign that may see our characters break rank 8, and so we've been brainstorming some houserules to avoid it.

 

Thus far we're playing with the following two ideas, and I'd be curious for input on it from other people here.

 

Idea #1: Crossclassing.

 

While we haven't necessarily come up with fluff reasons for this yet, we've been considering allowing a character that has breached rank 8, to use the advance trees of another chosen career as they rank up. Essentially, their rank 9=the new careers rank 1, and may choose Advances from that tree. They may take advances from their old career if they want, but essentially have more options as they continue to rank up. Undecided if we should force them to take characteristic advancements from their old tree or the new tree, but definitely don't want them to be able to choose.

 

 

Idea #2. Backtracking

 

This idea is similar to the other, but is essentially the idea that the character in question goes back and starts advancing up a separate career branch. So, as I play a Savant Psyker, as of hitting Rank 9 I can start ranking him up as a Scholar branch-Psyker. 

 

 

Obviously XP yields would be adjusted befitting a rank 9 character, but I'm curious for feedback on this "Dodge Ascension" houserule, and looking for any suggestions or ideas we could use to continue the brainstorm. Has anyone tried something like this before? And if you haven't is this just a bad idea, or are there ways we could make it work?



#2 Darth Smeg

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 04:07 AM

We went with your Idea #2, but nicked the characteristics advancement from Ascension. I also introduced a bunch of new talents from later games, and a bunch of rules. The result can be seen in my sig :)


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Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

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My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#3 PencilBoy99

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 05:22 PM

Darth Smeg, I got the impression that the house rules were just for starting from scratch using a different rule set. Would they let you use characters that were already at rank 8 in normal DH?



#4 Darth Smeg

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 03:39 AM

No, they grew over time as we played. We used rules and gear from other lines (Rogue Trader, etc) and when Ascension came along we gave it a go. Then we gave up :)

 

You can pick and choose what you want to change, and you can easily do so for a Rank 8 team. Just say that from now (or when they reach 16 000 XP) they can get access to their alternate branches. I also let them take various alternate ranks from various publications, if they're so inclined.

 

Then choose if you wish to change the combat rules or not, introduce the new talents, etc.


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Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#5 Denmar1701

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 02:58 AM

For me, a person who likes the Ascension rules, with few changes, I am really curious as to why your group doesn't like them.

 

With that said the biggest problem most of the groups I know who have had issues, it was because mastered skills and the like sometimes feel like they come out of nowhere, and the character can suddenly do everything, very well. One thing I know one group does, is when addressing any mastered skills, is all such skills had to be bought separately, and increased gradually... unless you could justify why a person could suddenly gain a skill at +20, their character were limited to a single gain in any one adventure.


"It's what we do... we live, fight or die, at the God-Emperor's graces"

 

... Inquisitor Mardenicvs Aneas Rexvs, shortly before his death.


#6 ColArana

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 05:15 AM

For me, a person who likes the Ascension rules, with few changes, I am really curious as to why your group doesn't like them.

 

With that said the biggest problem most of the groups I know who have had issues, it was because mastered skills and the like sometimes feel like they come out of nowhere, and the character can suddenly do everything, very well. One thing I know one group does, is when addressing any mastered skills, is all such skills had to be bought separately, and increased gradually... unless you could justify why a person could suddenly gain a skill at +20, their character were limited to a single gain in any one adventure.

 

Being that I'm a Psyker and we have an Assassin in the party-- which upgrade into two of the most broken careers in Ascension, perhaps you can understand our hesitancy, especially when we've taken a look at some of the things Ascension does. My GM already isn't fond of Psykers, in that from rank one they can do everything that the rest of the party can do and more (A good initiative roll, and a successful Spasm literally halved the difficulty of what he had hoped to be a grueling boss fight, as one half the boss fight put the other half into critical wounds status with a single Bolter shot, before combat had even properly started).

 

Seeing the Vindicare Assassin, with his 10+ dodges, with a near 100% chance of success on each attempt put a sour taste in our mouths and our GM near threw a fit when he saw the rules on Fettering, as the chance of me having the occasional head explosion has thus far been the sole balancing factor to my Psyker.

 

 

As far as Ascension goes, it seems the assassin and I would actually have to work hard to NOT break the system, and leave our other player's Guardsman completely in the dust. To paraphrase our Guardsman after he browsed through Ascension: "Oh, wow. If you guys get this stuff, I should at least get an Emperor Class Titan, or there's no point in me even being here." 

 

Simply put, we feel going with Ascension would leave a sour note on play, and potentially kill our campaign, so we're looking for alternatives. As I believe the threads on Ascension concluded (again paraphrasing): If a system is in such a state that you have to extensively houserule it so that it isn't broken, it's not a particularly good system.


Edited by ColArana, 21 December 2013 - 05:16 AM.


#7 Darth Smeg

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 08:26 AM

Ascension just didn't click for us. The Psyker was already overpowered, and the Primaris career just made it worse. Our Assassin was laughing manically at the number of Dodges he would be able to do, and the tech-priest was upset that the advance scheme tried to force him into some sort of diplomat. The book tries to present a game of intrigue and politics, but all the rules still point all their bloated mechanisms towards combat. In the end, we just decided to not touch it  :)


Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#8 professor_kylan

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:35 PM

*coughcough http://community.fan...0k-unified-rpg/ coughcough*

 

I've thrown an open ended system together for DH/RT/DW that should go on for as long as a game needs. (The fact that I'm looking for groups to test it to find any weaknesses is just a coincidence, honest :P )


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