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#1 Krawallburste

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 09:09 AM

Hello Community =)

 

I had another hot conversation with my Playergroup and hope to get clarification:

 

1)Potent Remedies

Potent Remedies reads: 

"When a hero discards an elixir token, he may roll 1 additional green power die and recover fatigue equal to the surge rolled, in addition to any damage recovered."

 

Now the Ruling on the elixir-tokens reads:

"When a hero discards an elixir token, he rolls one red power die and recovers damage equal to the hearts rolled on the DIE"

 

so my party wanted to add the hearts, they rolled on the green die, to the damage they would initially recover. My interpretation of potent remedies was, that it only offers the possibility of recovering fatigue, not patching up the damage... .

 

could i get clarification on this one?

 

 

2) Mental Error

I had to play Belthir the other day and performed his cry havoc action.

"Belthir performs a move action and then attack action. The attack targets every figure he moves through"

So i played mental error on this attack, which reads

"Play this card, when a monster attacks a hero, after rolling dice. The hero tests "intelligence". If he passes, the hero suffers 1 fatigue. If he fails, the attack gains +2damage

 

Warrior: If he fails, the attack also gains 1 surge."

 

Now i naturally would say i play this on one hero, but the effect resolves only to that hero, not to all attacks targeting every hero - wont it?

 

yours 

 

Krawallbuerste

 



#2 BentoSan

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 09:26 AM

1) Edit: After re-reading this i retract my statement, the heroes are correct. Not sure what i was thinking to be honest.

 

2) The card is pretty clear on talking about a single hero, "when a monster attack a hero" and "the hero tests"


Edited by BentoSan, 18 December 2013 - 01:03 PM.


#3 griton

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 11:40 AM

Since both of these situations could be interpreted either way, and I don't think we've seen clarifications on them before (I thought I had seen something with the first one, but am not finding it easily), these would be good candidates to submit to FFG via the Rules Questions link at the very bottom of the page.



#4 Krawallburste

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 11:53 AM

done, waiting =)



#5 mustardayonnaiz

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:39 PM

Potent remedies you recover hearts and surges on both die. This has been asked and answered by Justin over at BGG.
A simple search on the LoR rules section on BGG, will provide you with the answer.

#6 Krawallburste

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 05:44 PM

there we go


Edited by Krawallburste, 22 December 2013 - 08:23 AM.


#7 Krawallburste

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 08:22 AM

Hey Daniel,

 
1) It adds fatigue via the red dice and damage via the green dice to what is recovered.
 
2) Nope, Mental Error would affect all heroes who are affected by the attack. Each one would perform the test, and the attack would gain damage for each hero that failed. If a hero failed, the entire attack would gain 1 surge, which would apply to any hero affected by the attack.

Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games


#8 Steve-O

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 08:35 AM

I can accept the first ruling, about Potent Remedies, but I'm really having difficulty seeing how Justin's answer to Mental Error could be the correct interpretation of that card.  Unless he's trying to issue an errata because the card was not worded properly.

 

If we accept this, then it seems like any card that targets a single figure in an attack will now be extended to all figures affected by the attack (or at least all figures targeted.)  If that's not intended then I really don't see how we are to separate this card from any other card that targets a single figure who is being attacked.

 

 

I can tolerate vaguely worded rules, as long as the official answer can be consistently applied to all cases that use similar wording, once FFG's intent is made clear.  I'm worried that this ruling for Mental Error will spawn a series of questions/balance issues with other cards that use similar wording.

 

I'd also like to know if the reason for this ruling is in any way related to the fact that Belthir targets all the heroes he moves through, or if this would also apply to heroes affected by an attack, if Mental Error were played on a different type of AoE attack.


Edited by Steve-O, 22 December 2013 - 08:38 AM.

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#9 BentoSan

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:46 AM

I agree with you Steve-O it opens a big ol can-o-worms. Bit more info behind the decision would be nice. The card pretty clearly reads different to the ruling that was given.


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#10 Husker949

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 06:24 AM

The only reason I could really see the reason behind the ruling is that Belthir is using his ability that makes attacks against several people. Mental Error is still only being used on one action, Cry Havoc, it just adds more targets based on movement. At least those are my two cents.



#11 BentoSan

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 07:56 AM

The only reason I could really see the reason behind the ruling is that Belthir is using his ability that makes attacks against several people. Mental Error is still only being used on one action, Cry Havoc, it just adds more targets based on movement. At least those are my two cents.

 

Would this also work with for example a merriods flail ability then ? I am guessing because of the ruling it would be a yes. I agree with you in the respect that the ruling probably goes towards that the card and those like it would work on any monster attack that targets multiple heroes as opposed to multiple heroes being affected. The ruling is however a bit unclear, the implications on this are pretty far reaching however and have the opportunity to give a number of overlord cards a lot more power than the card might initial read.



#12 Husker949

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:09 AM

Agreed there are some very far reaching implications, like your example with Merriod's flail ability, or even a fire breath attack from a surge. I can only guess, but I would assume that it would extend to Fire Breath since it behaves along the same lines. The major difference that I can see is that Fire Breath doesn't perform additional attacks, only damage, but would that fall under the same purview and ruling?



#13 griton

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:11 AM

I agree with Steve-O here. Looking at the answer out of context can be really misleading. If the OP included the scenario with Belthir and Cry Havoc, that must be taken into account and is really an exception to the general rule.



#14 Kunzite

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 01:56 PM

I agree with this. As much as I would love to abuse this card, I feel it becomes too much... except for Firebreath. Fire breathing targets one hero. All surges and abilities are applied before other targets for firebreathing is set off. At least that's my understanding of it. So if I play mental error on the hero being attacked, the attack gains +2 to the attack (if he fails. Nothing more then the fatigue is suffered if he passes). Because there was only one target, the card fits the bill, but all other hit by fire breathing suffers for the target failing.


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#15 griton

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 10:54 AM

Correct, Kunzite. It's at most 1 +2 bonus, not one for each character as Justin is saying that Cry Havoc gains.



#16 Husker949

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 11:48 AM

Justin's statement to me only implied that each individual attack would benefit from the +2 damage. So hero A gets +2, but hero B doesn't. That was my interpretation, but with fire breath, if Hero A is the target and gets +2 damage then the entire attack VS. all heroes along the path would have the +2 damage as well. Am I wrong in my interpretation?



#17 BentoSan

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 12:33 PM

Good question the answer to me seems a little vague in that respect and i can easily read it going both ways!

#18 Silverhelm

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 12:37 PM

Justin's statement to me only implied that each individual attack would benefit from the +2 damage. So hero A gets +2, but hero B doesn't. That was my interpretation, but with fire breath, if Hero A is the target and gets +2 damage then the entire attack VS. all heroes along the path would have the +2 damage as well. Am I wrong in my interpretation?


That's how I understand it.

#19 griton

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:19 AM

I see how that could be read, but it's really vague, though. "The attack would gain damage for each hero that failed" could mean that it would ONLY gain damage when affecting that specific hero, but since there is only one attack being performed, it could also imply that 3 failed tests means the attack gains +6 (heart). Note that Mental Error doesn't read that the hero receives an increased +2 (heart) from the attack, it modifies the attack specifically. Also note that Cry Havoc doesn't say make multiple attacks using the same dice roll for each, it says to make one attack that targets multiple heroes.






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