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#21 LordBlades

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 02:43 AM


 

1. Yeah but it happens gradually and logically as the character grows over time, it doesn't happen halfway through rank 1 after three moderately lucky aquisition rolls.

 

2. Wait how can any human start with power armor? Like how as a part of their initial character creation aquisition? Maybe if they get an extremely lucky roll but honestly power armor is at the top of the list of items that if a player told me they wanted to go for with that roll I'd tell them NO just because a level 1 character in power armor is offensively stupid in the sense that it leaves you nowhere to go. Why even bother playing if you're going to start with the best possible gear? The game is all about aquiring things why start where you have nowhere to go? As for fluff even the Noble Born homeworld doesn't give you power armor and that would probably be the single most logical place a starting character might get it.

 

As for Arch Militant yeah per Core Rulebook it's kind of a blah class, so that's why you grab one or two alternate ranks. It's kind of like Voidmaster in that sense it just screams for alternate ranks. As for Kroot I said earlier that of the xenos they're the best balanced so we're more or less in agreement about them.

 

3. Well in my circumstance I think it's a mixture of the two, Orks if played properly really aren't super complex or nuanced personalities and while I don't dislike the guy he's a frustrating player to deal with for a number of reasons mostly to do with attendance and not reading the godamn book.

 

1. That depends. A let's say storm bolter with organgrinder rounds is two acquisition checks to turn an Archmilitant (or any other character) into a combat monster. As a starting character your  gear and then base stats and weapon trainings matter a whole lot more than the class itself

 

2. A starting character 'may choose a single item with a total Acquisition Modifier of +0 or more without the need to make an Acquisition Test' A single power armor fits that description (-30 for very rare, +30 for scale, which is explicitly included in 'total acquisition modifier', as per the example of pag. 271). It's of course your prerogative to disallow it (though I find an approach of 'you're rich enough to own a grand cruiser but not rich enough to own a power armor' kind of silly) in your games but the game most likely operates and is balanced around the assumption that a character can get power armor at game start if he so desires.


Edited by LordBlades, 20 December 2013 - 03:06 AM.


#22 Amazing Larry

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 03:05 AM

Wait what starting characters have both enough ship points to get a grand cruiser and enough PF to be likely to make that aquisition roll? Unless you roll both randomly and get extremely lucky you're probably going to get one or the other or neither based on the relevant table.

 

As for power armor being more valuable than a spaceship....um yeah in alot of cases it sort of is.. I mean not the baseline models no and not when compared to the better ships no but power armor is one of those things that's basically unnatainable unless you're as rich as the head of a subsector or are an Astartes and therefore entitled to a suit....and only AFTER spending about two decades getting bossed around by the Scout Leader. Also like I mentioned in another topicTerminator armor in particular is so valuable it's not really even attainable in RT.



#23 LordBlades

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 03:35 AM

You don't need PF because there's no roll. You get one item without an acquisition test and that's it, so even if you get worst possible PF (highly likely if you have the SP to get a grand cruiser) you can still get a power armor.

 

As for Terminator armor, not really sure there would be too many people who would use it in RT, from a mechanical standpoint. Terminator Armor offers 4 extra protection over power armor in both DH and DW in exchange for inability to dodge. It works in DW because Marines suck at dodging (Dodge +10 at rank 5, +20 at rank 8, no Step Aside etc.). Not so much in RT where almost all classes get Dodge +20 by rank 5 and there are IIRC alt ranks accessible by all classes to get Step Aside (and most likely Dodge +20 too). Exchanging your (usually great) ability to dodge for +4 armor would be a bad trade-off.

 

And from a RP standpoint no, I really don't buy it that power armor should be more prestigious than warships. Less return for inevstment, less associated with Rogue Traders? yes. But I completely disagree it's harder to obtain a suit of run of the mill power armor than even the lowliest frigate (and the rules reflect that). Power armor takes a lot less time, effort and most likely knowledge to build than a warship, and I'm willing to bet there are several orders of magnitude more suits of power armor than warships in the Imperium. Terminator armor is a different matter altogether (AFAIK they're only manufactured for the Astarters, and the only human-sized suits that I've come across are most likely custom built for Inquisitors and the like), and finding one sized for a normal human or somebody willing to build you one would probably go waaaay beyond the scope of an acquisition test.


Edited by LordBlades, 20 December 2013 - 03:37 AM.


#24 Amazing Larry

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 04:34 AM

Profit factor is sort of a nebulous concept but power armor is considered "very rare" which per Battlefleet Koronus is the same relative value of a good craftsmanship lance weapon. An object larger than a saturn v rocket that can punch holes clean through a ship's hull.

 

So yeah power armor is and should be stupidly expensive, and I think it has much less to do with the materials required to make it than it does with the fact that it would have to be (due to it's numerous systems and moving parts) an extremely complex piece of machinery and as I understand it every single suit it hand crafted more or less individually by tech priests who have spent their entire lives learning to make it. The Space Marine Codex also implies it needs hours of maintenance every few days at a minimum.

 

Owning a suit of Power Armor in 40K is much like owning your own 747 in real life, awesome but totally impractical for almost everyone.



#25 LordBlades

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 04:54 AM

Profit factor is sort of a nebulous concept but power armor is considered "very rare" which per Battlefleet Koronus is the same relative value of a good craftsmanship lance weapon. An object larger than a saturn v rocket that can punch holes clean through a ship's hull.

 

So yeah power armor is and should be stupidly expensive, and I think it has much less to do with the materials required to make it than it does with the fact that it would have to be (due to it's numerous systems and moving parts) an extremely complex piece of machinery and as I understand it every single suit it hand crafted more or less individually by tech priests who have spent their entire lives learning to make it. The Space Marine Codex also implies it needs hours of maintenance every few days at a minimum.

 

Owning a suit of Power Armor in 40K is much like owning your own 747 in real life, awesome but totally impractical for almost everyone.

 

 

Good thing Rouge Traders are far from 'almost everyone'

 

Owning a 747 in RL is out of the reach of 99% of world's population, but then so is owning and maintaining your own private nuclear submarine. This doesn't mean the two would be on the same scale.

 

The way I see it, for somebody who already has the resources to own, maintain, supply, crew and fly a ship (which might be as big as a Grand Cruiser or Battlecruiser), owing one or more suits of Power Armor isn't something very difficult to achieve.



#26 Fgdsfg

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 08:18 AM

[...]

... A single power armor fits that description (-30 for very rare, +30 for scale, which is explicitly included in 'total acquisition modifier', as per the example of pag. 271).

[...]

Profit factor is sort of a nebulous concept but power armor is considered "very rare" [...]

Basic power armours in Rogue Trader are actually Extremely Rare, not Very Rare.

I'm not getting involved in the argument, I just wanted to point that out.

Edit: Also, It's -30 for Extremely Rare; -20 for Very Rare.


Edited by Fgdsfg, 20 December 2013 - 08:20 AM.

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#27 Tenebrae

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:08 AM

Profit factor is sort of a nebulous concept but power armor is considered "very rare" which per Battlefleet Koronus is the same relative value of a good craftsmanship lance weapon. An object larger than a saturn v rocket that can punch holes clean through a ship's hull.

You seem to have missed table 9-36, top of p. 274, which conveniently adds a -30?

But yeah, profit factor as written and rolled with a d% is silly. I trust we all knew that?

#28 LordBlades

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:56 AM

 

[...]

... A single power armor fits that description (-30 for very rare, +30 for scale, which is explicitly included in 'total acquisition modifier', as per the example of pag. 271).

[...]

Profit factor is sort of a nebulous concept but power armor is considered "very rare" [...]

Basic power armours in Rogue Trader are actually Extremely Rare, not Very Rare.

I'm not getting involved in the argument, I just wanted to point that out.

Edit: Also, It's -30 for Extremely Rare; -20 for Very Rare.

 

 

My fault for the confusion sry. It's Very Rare in RT core, and I wrote the post as such, then I remembered they changed it to Extremely Rare in the errata, but somehow I only changed the number (from -20 to -30) and not the text as well.



#29 Amazing Larry

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 12:31 PM


Good thing Rouge Traders are far from 'almost everyone'

 

 

Except if you look at what's in the source books the vast majority of them don't have it. Lure of the Expanse lists eight famous RTs and only one of them has it and if you read up on her it goes on to say she's the product of a Dynasty that settled multiple systems in the Calixis Sector a long time ago and her family is so stupidly rich already that they use their warrent for recreational treasure hunting. The only other example I can think of off the top of my head is the current head of House Winterscale who isn't so much a RT as he is THE RT.

 

So yeah having a level 1 arch militant start with power armor is stupid.



#30 Erathia

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 12:51 PM

Power Armour is honestly not that good for Rogue Traders. They tend to get into protracted negotiations and do things on a grand scale, so having a suit of armour that works for 1d5 hours is potentially disastrous. If you try to deploy troops in power armour, the enemy army could just retreat and wait until their suits run out of power, and then kill a bunch of helpless enemies.

 

One of my players got a set of Power Armour treasure from Stars of Inequity that has the Alien quality of never running out of power, so it's probably some of the best Power Armour in the galaxy. And also Xenotech. He wears it everywhere, and revels in the precious armour points it provides him.

 

The other problem is that presumably Rogue Traders will behave like people on this forum and have house troops armed with lascannons, digital melta rings, Krak missile launchers and probably a few Xenotech weapons on their person, and all of those have penetration greater than what Power Armour will provide.


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#31 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 02:32 PM

The RT got the starship through his warrant, not because he personally is truly obscenely rich,



#32 CaptainStabby

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 03:31 PM

I'll take a good field and some best quality void sealed carapace over PA any day of the week for my RT.

 

Also the upgrade that lets me make it glow like I'm at a rave, because well... I can.



#33 LordBlades

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 06:10 PM


 

Except if you look at what's in the source books the vast majority of them don't have it. Lure of the Expanse lists eight famous RTs and only one of them has it and if you read up on her it goes on to say she's the product of a Dynasty that settled multiple systems in the Calixis Sector a long time ago and her family is so stupidly rich already that they use their warrent for recreational treasure hunting. The only other example I can think of off the top of my head is the current head of House Winterscale who isn't so much a RT as he is THE RT.

 

So yeah having a level 1 arch militant start with power armor is stupid.

 

You think it's stupid, other people don't. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion OFC.

 

Just because most RTs in the fluff don't have power armor, it doesn't mean they can't afford it, just that they chose to use their wealth/time to acquire more useful stuff. If a RT doesn't plan on doing frontline fighting very often, why spend the money on power armor ?Especially if the power supply only lasts 1d5 hours, which means frequent changes, which implies logistics and uncomfortable standing around while your underlings change the batteries.

 

 

The RT got the starship through his warrant, not because he personally is truly obscenely rich,

 

But he still is rich enough to keep it going (supplies, repairs, new crewmen, ammo, torps, attack craft etc.). In my view of WH40k getting all of that regularly is harder than getting a suit of power armor once.


Edited by LordBlades, 21 December 2013 - 02:57 AM.


#34 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 08:18 AM

Kroots with Macro Hammers AND power armors.

 

I wonder what's next.

 

Maybe next they will turn him into a Dreadnought when he dies?


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#35 LordBlades

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 08:56 AM

Kroots with Macro Hammers AND power armors.

 

I wonder what's next.

 

Maybe next they will turn him into a Dreadnought when he dies?

 

I'd rather go for Tau battlesuits TBH. Lighter, stronger and less permanent :P






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