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Tossing another Marine?


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#1 pearldrum1

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 08:41 PM

One of my PCs is hell bent on knowing whether or not, in a pinch, if her character could physically throw another PC.

 

I know that weight of the PC being thrown and her strength score (bonus?) would come into play here.

 

I just do not know how to go about figuring it out.

 

HELP. Thanks.



#2 Lynata

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 11:00 PM

Rules for throwing objects can be found in the Core Rulebook on page 209. As noted, a character may attempt to throw an object with a weight up to half their normal Lifting Weight. With a Space Marine's Unnatural Strength and Toughness, this means throwing anything up to 112kg (assuming a Strength and Toughness score of 40-49) would not be a problem. If her Strength and/or Toughness are 50 or higher, the maximum weight increases further. The relevant table can be found on page 208.

 

In the Deathwatch RPG, the average Space Marine clocks in at between 500 and 1.000 kg (see page 28), which very likely exceeds the character's normal throwing ability, so the test automatically becomes Hard and receives a -20 penalty.

 

Ultimately, your player thus needs to succeed on a -20 Strength test. If successful, the other Space Marine will gracefully ( :D) sail through the air for a distance equal to the throwing character's Strength Bonus multiplied by any Degrees of Success the player may achieve. If the test fails, the other Space Marine will only fly a distance equal to half her character's Strength Bonus (so, probably still about 5 meters, due to the Unnatural bonus).

 

If the Space Marine is hurled at a specific target, he becomes an Improvised Weapon, and your player needs to test Ballistic Skill instead of Strength. Note that, as per RAW, this would make the test somewhat more difficult as her character no longer receives the bonus from the Unnatural Trait. Since this doesn't make a whole lot of sense (as her character doesn't get weaker just for tossing the Marine at something instead of anything), I would recommend houseruling that, for the purposes of this one action, she should roll on her Ballistic Skill, but still treat the result as if she had rolled on Unnatural Strength.

 

In either case, anything hit by the thrown Space Marine takes 1d10 plus the thrower's SB damage.

 

If you wish, you may also apply Falling Damage to the thrown Space Marine as per the rules on page 261, but due to the rules being a bit weird you may end up with the Marine taking more damage than what he was thrown at. Truth be told, I would probably houserule that whatever object or enemy the Marine is being hurled at takes a bit more damage, just due to the weight of this particular "thrown object".

 

Have fun!  :lol:

 

[edit] Oh, and don't forget to add the Strength bonus from power armour to the above tests ... I totally forgot to add the bonus damage from mine in today's game as I was busy punching Necron Scarabs left and right. Not that it mattered much; xeno constructs have such crappy craftsmanship.


Edited by Lynata, 14 December 2013 - 11:05 PM.

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current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#3 herichimo

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 11:32 PM

Additionally, remember the rules for Unnatural Characteristics.

 

Unnatural Strength makes all Strength tests 1 degree easier for each multiplier (US 2 = 1 degree easier).


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#4 pearldrum1

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 01:42 AM

Don't know what I would do without you guys. Thanks!



#5 Manael

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 08:43 AM

Hi !

 

Sorry to up this topic, but I am not pretty sure that Lynata is right. Corebook state that you could throw things up to half your normal lifting weight is right, but lifting weight calculation seems not right, and this bugs me.

For exemple, I have a player with a Strength of 60 and Toughness of 54. Due to Unnatural Characteristics and Armor bonus, Strength Bonus is, correct me if I'm wrong, 14 (6*2 +2) and Toughness Bonus is 10. Lifting weight depends of the addition of SB and TB, which make 24, which means I've got a problem, because my player is off the charts, maximum bonus in the table is 20... But even if I take the maximum in this table, my player can lift things up to 4500 kg, and throw things with a weight up to 2250 kg, which means he can throw space marines easily, and even cars or things like that, like it was some ball of paper...

And with a strength of 60, a bonus armor of +20, and the unnaturral strength characteristics which add a +10 to the test, it means he can only fail on a 100, and he could throw another space marine, with a 1, up to 140 meters...

Is there something wrong in my calculation, or is a Space Marine this cheated ? :P



#6 Lynata

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 09:29 AM

Sorry to up this topic, but I am not pretty sure that Lynata is right. Corebook state that you could throw things up to half your normal lifting weight is right, but lifting weight calculation seems not right, and this bugs me.

For exemple, I have a player with a Strength of 60 and Toughness of 54. Due to Unnatural Characteristics and Armor bonus, Strength Bonus is, correct me if I'm wrong, 14 (6*2 +2) and Toughness Bonus is 10. Lifting weight depends of the addition of SB and TB, which make 24, which means I've got a problem, because my player is off the charts, maximum bonus in the table is 20... But even if I take the maximum in this table, my player can lift things up to 4500 kg, and throw things with a weight up to 2250 kg, which means he can throw space marines easily, and even cars or things like that, like it was some ball of paper...

 

Hum? The half of 24 is 12, which means a Throwing Weight of 224 kg as per the chart.

 

Lifting Weight, which means the full 24, is different, but that's a whole different topic than the question posted in this thread.

And yes, personally I'd agree that it is ridiculous - especially once you do something like this, but some people really like the idea of Space Marines tossing around Baneblades and such. *shrug*

 

Deathwatch is all about the Epic, as you can see when looking at the nature of Horde rules and various Talents unique to the DW ruleset. For a more gritty and down-to-earth interpretation of the Space Marines, check GW's own d100 Inquisitor game, or try your hand at houserules. I actually have a mind to attempt the latter some day, but I need to finish something else first. :)


Edited by Lynata, 24 January 2014 - 09:31 AM.

current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#7 Manael

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 09:59 AM

Ok, taking half of the bonus to calculate the weight that can be thrown instead of half the weight that can be lifted is a good idea.

That was not my understanding of the rule for throwing objects (But my core rulebook is in french, maybe the translation's not right), but it's a start that I could use. Not that I don't want my players to be heroic and do some crazy stuff, but throwing space marines like ball of paper, up to 140 meters (in my first calculation, if the player scores a 01) was something that bugs me...

Thanks for your help !


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#8 Lynata

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 10:11 AM

It says half SB+TB in mine, but indeed it is always possible that things can get lost in translation! :)

If in doubt about these things, I believe you can also contact FFG directly.

 

And, no problem - glad to help!


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#9 Calgor Grim

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 12:26 PM

I saw this and thought of the below:

 

http://1d4chan.org/w...gie_McIsaac.png

 

Accuracy is patchy but the humour factor...


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Loyal Missionary Father Grim of the Kingston 293rd Storm Troopers


#10 Lynata

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 12:29 PM

:lol:

 

Yeah, that's kind of what I meant ...

Many thanks for sharing that laugh!

 

[edit] This was linked there:

 

Tossin_Mahreens.jpg

 

Deathwatch! XD


Edited by Lynata, 24 January 2014 - 12:35 PM.

current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#11 pearldrum1

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 06:44 PM

I saw this and thought of the below:

 

http://1d4chan.org/w...gie_McIsaac.png

 

Accuracy is patchy but the humour factor...

 

This made my day. Arrigatou Gozaimasu.



#12 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 06:44 AM

Personally I would include some kind of modifier for marines not being very aerodynamic.



#13 Brother Orpheo

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 09:43 AM

My inner twelve year-old completely misinterpreted the topic line.

I thought this was going to be another "Can Space Marines have sex?" thread.

I have to say I'm pleased it's not.


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=][=


#14 herichimo

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 11:20 AM

Yes the carry/lift table can get rediculous for deathwatch. Let's not forget the whole system is based off of the Dark Heresy ruleset which did not think ahead to the introduction of superhuman characters when it was made. When the system is scaled up to significant levels things start getting a little... hard to believe.

 

A space marine with toughness 60, artificer armor, and a storm shield for instance, is almost impossible to damage with anything short of lascannons (and even that is iffy). It's just one of those things the original designers (not knocking FFG, the original designers was Black Industries, a short-lived off-shoot of GW) did not forsee. When the system is limited to normal human levels it works well. Going into Deathwatch and Accension, things get wonky.


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#15 Kshatriya

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 05:52 PM

Carry/lift is not as big of a deal. Throwing for 120m is ridiculous. I'd say you don't have the leverage for it. The other Marine isn't a shot put, after all.

 

The initial fault is indeed BI, who probably never thought DH would take off into spawning multiple new product lines. I'm happy to knock FFG for not looking at the system and changing it for their later, higher-powered lines, though. 






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