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Southlands (or Lustria) critters and ideas


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#21 valvorik

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 08:11 AM

That is part of what I like doing - not always having it be Ruinous Powers, Vampires/Necromancers, Dark Elves and Greenskins/Beastmen/Skaven.  Though still having those bobbing about because they are fun and good adrenaline boosters.

 

The Paizo adventure is pretty clearly "heart of darkness" inspired in more than just the title (mercantile operation ruthlessly exploiting the natives) though it plays with that lots and doesn't have a "Kurtz" figure.  That becomes the mysterious northerner who survived the first Southlands expediction. 

 

Thanks for post, has me thinking "needs me a forest of sticks with heads on 'em"!  And it gives me the final words for the NPC..... "the horror...".  Now if that's not a final utterance for a WRFP character what is?



#22 Grandmartoni

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 09:20 AM

This might be too obvious...but I think the Southlands would HAVE to have some dinosaurs!!!

#23 valvorik

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 09:39 AM

Actually, I don't think the Southlands has dinosaurs.  They are strictly Lustria.  I could be wrong and stand to be corrected, but the lizard folk of Southlands don't get dino-mounts though a variant of cold one they do have.



#24 fastjack

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 02:48 PM

if you are looking for inspiration for a Lustria campaign, many many years ago someone called Royston Crow created a WFRP1e campaign.  Fairly recently all of the parts were recovered and are now hosted over at...

 

http://www.grognard.... Crows Lustria/

 

hopefully this will help 



#25 valvorik

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:35 AM

Cool, thanks for digging that up.

 

A "de-nogginizer" trap - love WFRP humour.


Edited by valvorik, 03 February 2014 - 09:00 AM.


#26 Roland the Red

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 12:08 PM

Another idea is to look at Paizo's (in Dungeon Magazine) Isle of Dread remake. Mostly for the whole journey aspect. It was a very well written AP. I know you mentioned that part being slim, but I think the purpose of the journey is to convey the fact that the PCs are "not in kansas" anymore. Take the island encounters of Odysseus: Each one is a glimpse into the darkness of man. The hedonism and sloth of the Lotus Eaters, The savagery of the cylcopes, etc. A couple of acts like that would foreshadow the darkness they will encounter in Lustria.



#27 valvorik

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 12:25 PM

Paizo does have some nice jungle stuff:

 

 

"When foreigners think of Hell, they think of jagged stone and lakes of fire. But they’re wrong. A sharp rock is a blessing when the other option is quicksand and tangled mangrove roots that try to suck you down beneath the brown sludge. Fire is a blessing when the air is so wet that you drown standing up, its hot soup draining into your lungs with the funk of a thousand rotting plants. Give me the clean kiss of a devil’s lash over the festering rot that eats your toes and eyes, or the flies that burrow through your skin and lay their maggots in your flesh."



#28 valvorik

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 06:38 PM

Back to working on this, any others' ideas still welcome.

 

One thing is what effects being so far away from pole/gate/source of winds has on Channelling.

 

I'm thinking that generally all attempts gain a misfortune die and Failure result reflecting the weak winds.

 

The hot climate sustains Aqshy, so it gains only the misfortune.

 

If in jungles with all that plant and animal life, Ghur and Ghyr also only gain a misfortune.

 

An added effect, applying to all winds, is that having to work harder to draw on winds increases risks in error.  Any Chaos Star automatically counts as a failure and a Chaos Star (as if it was a Daunting or Epic test).

 

On a related point, for Aqshy at sea, the same Chaos star effect and add a failure into all die pools as being surrounded by water poor sympathy for Aqshy.

 

I am inspired in this in part by the rules in Liber Fantatica IV for 2nd edition and different winds and other 2nd edition rules for "varying the strength of winds".

 

The difficulty using the winds accounts for reliance on other forms of magic such as Dark Magic (fueled by sacrifices, the Nagash novels seem to suggest this) or Divine Magic that has its own rules (drawing on the power of aethyr beings rather than the winds?)

 

I don't add difficulty castings spells out of view it's the power to fuel them that is scarce, if you have the power then fine you can cast spells.

 

Also, partly to balance for PC wizard and also fluff seems consistent,since winds weaker, Miscasts resolve as if there was one fewer Chaos Stars (e.g., you need to roll 2 to get a Miscast),  You're less likely to provoke strange magical effects too.

 

Opinions of that?


Edited by valvorik, 13 May 2014 - 08:58 AM.


#29 Conrad Gray

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 03:06 PM

Thoughts about human civilizations there: the Southlands are large and unexplored, which would be the perfect place to put new, hidden armies. An African-influenced nation in the Southlands can draw inspiration from Great Zimbabwe, maybe a series of fortress-cities deep in the jungle that protects the people from the dangers there. They have encounters with Lizardmen and fight the greenskins quite regularly.
 
To connect it to the rest of the Old World, they might have had skirmishes with the Tomb Kings and ancient trade with the Araby (think Mansa Musa), and there are myths and legends in the Empire about them even being Sigmarites! Consider the legend of Prester John or the Queen of Sheba, and King Solomon's Mines.
 
It might end up a mishmash of different SubSaharan African civilizations from history, (as opposed to say if Cathay and Nippon were armies, western audiences would be able to distinguish between them more easily), but it would be cool because it would give representation to cultures that don't show up in most traditional fantasy, except maybe Guild Wars Nightfall.
 
In addition to this, Southlanders have okapi cavalry and fight "savage" versions of humans, elves, dwarves, etc. who have been driven mad by the all-encroaching jungle. Hyperintelligent gorillas, too.


#30 valvorik

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 04:28 PM

I have gone with the "Ebonians" mentioned in passing at times (e.g., in connection with Nekhara and Arabya).

 

My take on them, some lost-world stuff but an African culture not a spin-off, lost Reman or Nekharan group etc. (those can also exist):

 

Ebonians

 

"Ebonian" is the name given to black-skinned humans of the Southlands by northerners.   They are actually three tribes who share a common culture and language:  the Baalwari, Mehngara and Kai'itano.  There were once three other tribes.  One did not come south and instead migrated to what is now the southern Arabyan territory and was effectively absorbed into that culture.  A second was separated from the others coming south and is lost to memory and a third perished in a great plague (skaven doings).

 

This human culture has ancient roots, once living south of Nekhara as a client people.   They fled south to escape the doom that came to Nekhara from Nagash.   This was an arduous journey but they believe it was actually "the journey home" and that their god blessed their path.  They live primarily on the west coast, south of the great inlets and bays, in grasslands. They are skilled with metallurgy though have little access to iron and thus work mostly copper and bronze.

 

They are a cattle-herding, warlike folk who deal harshly with intruders - be they beastmen, greenskins or lizard men.  They believe themselves the creations of their god, who lives on a nearby mountain called the Throne of God in their language - Kohl N'gai.  The mountain is taboo, no one goes there.

 

Ebonians are often hired, as troops of mercenaries or individuals, to assist northerners in the Southlands.  They are less prone to heat-stroke or falling ill to the sweating sickness.  Ebonians are also skilled in the herb and leechcraft of the Southlands, knowing the best remedies to many illnesses or poisonous bites etc., thus highly prized as barber-surgeons.

 

They have some traces of Nekharan influence, including mummifying their dead, but are not the same culture.  The lizard men of the Southlands (whose numbers are affected by low Saurus spawning) sometimes try to raid them for slaves - something they are vigilant against and which fuels great hatred for the scaled humanoids.

 

Other races:

 

Some mongrelmen/intelligent apes and some "serpent people" are both bubbling in my head with Lovecraftian imagery.  

 

The Old Ones created Saurus and Skinks manipulating various reptiles, they may have experimented with other "baselines" as well.  Paizo's jungle setting has "swarming mad chimp-people", I think that would be sort of like a goblin waaagh.  In Paizo they're pretty much that way all the time, which is a bit over the top, something more rare (a flaw that is the reason the Old Ones decide not to "go with that model").  

 

I'm thinking that one particular city, perhaps an unmarked one, was the "testing lab" for these sorts of things and had lots of "samples" preserved.  The fall of the Old Ones saw its keepers lost and eventually "some of the samples" got out.  

 

Yes much of this influenced by Dwellers of the Forbidden City (see Emirikols post, one of my earlierst D&D experiences) - that's where yuan-ti first showed up and it's a nice "hidden/sealed city map"....

 

I know that there are later generation Slann in the Southlands but I really want to minimalize them somehow, perhaps they're all mostly busy maintaining the spell that keeps the south pole from becoming just as much of a mess as the north (it's a mess just not a tainting the whole world mess).  I want this because proper Slann (even later generation ones) strike me as just too powerful to have PCs even brush up against in an adventure (at least that's my take - drawn from Burning Shore novel).  The Southlands slann had to actually use Ibn Jellaba to get back one of their own mummies - that's not something that the Lustrian crowd would stoop to (in my view of things).

 

Serpent people could be something else entirely - survivals of the pre-Old One World whose civilization was destroyed when the Old Ones "cleaned house to make way for their grand plan" and of which only the faintest traces remain.  They were entombed deep underground but the earthquakes of -1500 IC (dwarf Time of Woes, Slann adjusting planet a tad) released/awoke them.  Here again I'm thinking more Lovecraftian in tone.

 

Biloko are cannibal halflings (imagine a tribe of little hannibal lectors with filed teeth, skin dyed red, and paralysis darts - who like to ride around on giant flying - still working what flying mount they use out).  They mark their territory with preserved shrunken heads, and talk with drums (Fear check!).  No one who comes back from the Southlands ever looks at a halfling sausage-maker the same again.....


Edited by valvorik, 15 May 2014 - 04:35 PM.


#31 DurakBlackaxe

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 02:41 AM

The latest Grotek book had them in Southlands/araby area.  Some lizardmen, lots and lots of the tomb kings/vampires.

 

It had 2 dinosaurs in the area. Cant rememebr the names but one was the one Trex like the other was the one with the shield on neck i think.



#32 Emirikol

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 09:26 AM

We dig those things out of our backyards here in Colorado.  When Ray Harryhausen did his movies, he had a kick-butt triceratops flinging people all over.    I'd use COLD ONE stats with added armour and increased crit.

 

As for the T-Rex, it would probably just be "swaller' whole" and again, increased threat.  Squig might work well, but add TERROR as well.

 

Ceratopsian_skulls.jpg


Edited by Emirikol, 21 May 2014 - 09:28 AM.


#33 Emirikol

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 09:31 AM

Not to get back to D&D too much, but the following would work:  Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan, Isle of the Ape and Isle of Dread.  There were probably some od the "X" series that also took place in that environment "Where Chaos Reigns" rings a bell and I think was done by the Brit writers.

 

jh

 

antichrist_-_5.png



#34 valvorik

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 12:19 PM

 Lost City and Hidden Shrine (the space ship actually makes more sense in Warhammer, though not the name) I have, Isle of the Ape I'm a bit iffy on (anything that would get my players chanting "Kong, Kong" is out) - Paizo actually has a sort of daemonic Kong uber villain in its jungle setting.

 

Think I have the Dragon Magazon/Paizo, Isle of Dread somwhere

http://www.wizards.c...p_isledread.jpg

 

You can decide which of the "mistake due to translator" (you wanted raise dead, i raised dead) or the "only children with longsword proficiency" are funnier.

 

Oh, I have to add re Dwellers of Forbidden City, Bully Wugs are obviously slann who have been somehow forced to go to the gym regularly.  That's why it's forbidden, there's nothing a slann hates more than a millenium long gym membership.


Edited by valvorik, 21 May 2014 - 12:28 PM.

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#35 valvorik

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 04:07 PM

Thinking about the Forbidden City and Karak Zorn (lost hold/first hold of the dwarves) got me thinking a bit more about the idea of the city as being one location the Slann were doing their genetic engineering/gene splicing etc.  The mongrelmen of the DND module were the real "kicker" for this train of thought.

 

Why do you think you came from a Southlands hold Dwarves?  Well, in a "spin" on our history, "because all humanoid life came from the Southlands of course".  Well, all the Old One/Slann tinkered versions of that life created according to the Great Plan did at least.

 

I have never read anything about the specific location of the Slann labs etc. for this work, so don't think it contradicts anything.

 

There are "things to be seen on walls" and otherwise learned here, if you intelligence to understand, that would destroy your sanity!

 

Throw in some futuristic cybertek with genetic reprogramming etc. and then say the city's machinery was damaged either during the Great Cataclysm or one of the "world shifting" events since - potentially as late as -1500.  It can have regressive or unpredictable effects on creatures exposed to the fields it generates.  So there are indeed Bullywugs which are regressed versions of Slann, far closer to the creatures they were created from originally.  Mongrelmen which mix traits of all the "great plan" humanoid races.  Ape-men which are an "alternate version of humans" etc.

 

The Lizardmen and few Slann of the Southlands avoid the city because of this (it has a genetic sort of biohazard/radioctive hazard label, being a "genetic Chernobyl" to avoid).

 

Perhaps the Serpent People have been trying to master this science in order to pull off a "genetic coup", one of Lovecraftian overtones, by which all humanoid life on the planet would be genetically reprogrammed to transform into a Serpent Person (as a virtually extinct race their options for a "come back" are limited to something this grandiose).  They're some ways from figuring this out (thus you get the yuan ti purebloods, abominations etc.)

 

Are there "canon" problems with this or points to incorporate?

 

PS - I picked up that Gotrek and Felix book on way home, thanks for letting me know.


Edited by valvorik, 21 May 2014 - 04:08 PM.


#36 Emirikol

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 07:05 PM

I don't see any canon problems.  The difficulty is getting all this across to the players through play without them simplifying it as "just another island of Dr Moreau" or "Prometheus."

 

It seems like a great way to use mutations (excessively) without having chaos spawn.  Imagine a creature with 5-10 mutations (Mongrelman).  There is a really scary pic of them in the new pathfinder book.


Edited by Emirikol, 21 May 2014 - 07:05 PM.


#37 Emirikol

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 09:09 PM

My kids and I just finished up forbidden city (using Pathfinder).  The boy ended up chief of the mongrelmen (per the wrestling match) and they killed the Pan Lung (used Bestiary 3's Ocean Dragon) by luring it to the edge of the lake and dumping boulders on its head from the cliff face..hence scattering the Bullywugs and ending their reign of terror in the Forbidden city.  They left with some dragon scale armor, but no weapons because the Mongrelmen had poisoned them, taken their stuff and sold it to the bugbears (who fed everything to the rust monster).  They left with sticks, stones and dragon scales :)



#38 DurakBlackaxe

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 03:31 AM

From my many years from reading the older White Dwarves and the books. The impression i got was this.

 

The elves were taught in the west, the dwarves in the east

The ancestor gods left the Southlands and headed north,seemingly having alot of knowledge, even their children were knowledgeable. They had superior longer lifespans even compared to other dwarves.

Lizardmen were created to destroy anything not following the Great Plan.

 

Humans were their next experiment but the problem at the warp gates, meant that work was never completed.

Ancestor gods know of the gates, the elves seeming didnt, elves knew of how to contain magic, dwarves didnt.

 

The northern keep lost touch of the southern keeps just before the War of the Beard. Rumours are Lizardmen were attacking Karak Zorn. A dwarf from Zorn during the start of the war of beard was actually a demonic possession.

 

Years after the war of the beard, humans came west across the mountain past the dwarven holds. Fighting Orcs for land.

( Orcs took the land after the Elves left?)

 

The Land of the Dead was still alive with humans at the time of the War of the Beard. At the end of the war, the dark elf sorceress in that war ended up teaching Nagash dark magic.

 

Which means humans had to have been in two parts of the world, none in lustria though.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So I guess from this that the Old Ones/ Slann had 3 to 5 bases, plus whatever factories, eg Albion.

Lustria was for Elves, didnt hear of any other races that didnt come from the east living on that continent,

Southlands was for dwarves, could of had humans.

Ind, Catay etc. So many humans on that side of the world. Also halflings came from that side also. Giants and Ogres also were in east.

Then the Poles for the gates.

Who knows where orcs stand in all this.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I think the ancestor gods were the Slann version of dwarves, if comparing slann to lizardmen.

For some reason they had to leave the southlands and move north carving out all those holds.

 

Doesnt sound like they were running away, But to make so many holds their had to either be alot of dwarves or took a long time and alot of breeding.

 

I keep thinking Battlefield Earth, and inside the hold is this device that turns a dwarf into a genius.  Picture a skaven steppign into the device hehe.



#39 valvorik

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 05:58 AM

Thanks for summing that all up (I recall that daemonic dwarf in a novel, very much a loose thread the way it was left).

 

Untainted mutants was part of what I was going for (though mechanically mutution cards etc. can be used to model results)

 

It can be left vague.  Was this where all came from, was this the "testing lab where things were figured out before the orders to create went to the manufacturing plants", or was this some rival faction/back up plan with its own experiments?  As frustrating as it can be at times like these, in the long run the GW aproach of "leaving  lots of answers forever behind the curtain" does keep some mystery and freshness.

 

"In game" PCs would never learn the truth and might in fact get very garbled/distorted versions of it (Players may understand more, the way "in game" in the D&D Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan the PC's never realize "that's a spaceship" but Players do - a bit of fun where Players knowing it doesn't change any PC decision).



#40 DurakBlackaxe

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 02:26 AM

Maybe the old ones were crafting chaos immune creatures, and you find the failures?






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