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Re-Developing List: The Baron's Magic Space Bus


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#1 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:33 PM

With all the focus on Great White Space Bisons and Tie Advanced lately, I had to take a look at an old list but a good list:

Baron's Focus: http://community.fan...t-barons-focus/

And upgraded it to:
Soontir Fell + PTL + Stealth= 33
Omni+ Gunner + Engine Upgrade = 30
Nightbeast= 15
Dark Curse= 16

Clocking in at 94pts we have some room for improvements!

Originally this list was focused on focusing and had a Firespray BH as the big ship but I need something to block and take a beating and the BH with a recon specialist was more of a big dogfighter than a space Anvil. Ideally, I want my opponent to focus on/around this anvil and get lit up from some unexpected places.

---The little guys that do heavy lifting- they are kinda like roadies---

The named ties:
Nightbeast- often able to evade and focus on the same turn for more survivability than expected and the ability to barrel roll for positioning and still snag a free focus means the Beasty is more maneuverable than expected as well. You can't have a pilot error while using him or you do waste his extra points over an Academy. One upgrade option coming soon is the targeting computer. I don't know that giving a basic tie TL is really that useful but it could work here.

Dark Curse- Everyone's favorite thorn in everyone elses side. Throw on a stealth device and, unless it's a lucky one shot, the curse will produce many curses from your opponent. He's here to make the obvious attack choice the shuttle (Fell with 4-5 agility, double focus, and an evade- if you even have a shot on him, this guy, and that other tie with a focus and evade token= Kill the albino void manatee). Use him as a mini anvil to crash your opponents into and don't worry too much about him. If they are shooting at him (and likely wasting shots) then your real hitters are living longer. Shares point cost with Backstabber

Backstabber- There are 2 reasons I don't put backstabber in this list. 1)he costs 1pt too much to include along side Dark Curse. 2) Backstabber Draws more hate fire than pretty much any other cheap ship and I want my opponent killing the shuttle not my offense.

So the real question about these three is Who would you choose and why? And would you upgrade any of them? Stealth on DC is great until it's not. Both other named ties could benefit from a targeting computer. Heck, you could take both the offensive minded ties and a targeting computer for both.

Honorable mention: Mauler. A high PS 4 dice capable offensive threat is seldom a bad idea. Again, he draws some hate fire AND costs more so I would need to see a pretty compelling argument to include him here.

---The Magic- He drives this bus!---

Fell is just awesome offense and crazy maneuverability. Your opponent will know this and either prioritize (meaning you spend the game driving him crazy by rolling/boosting out of arcs and taking evade + double focus all day) or ignore him (4 red dice all day). The original build made this a lose lose choice with the BH.

You have points to improve his awesomeness here. You could give him a targeting computer (which I have wished I had 1-2 times recently) or a shield with the Imperial Title coming up. Neither of those are bad upgrades but making your biggest offensive threat (and priority target unless flown well) even more of a point sink seems to be counter productive.

Fell will kill more ships than the rest of the list combined -or- make sure your secret weapons have free reign to ruin your opponents day.

---The "meat" of the build- The Anvil---
Originally a Bounty Hunter with Recon Specialist now a Pale Orbital Bison. The latter has the benefit of costing less than the former and seeming like an easier target while still throwing out 3-4 die while taking a beating and is upgradeable with a number of fun tricks.

Your choice for upgrades here is difficult. Vader seems like obvious choice for a list bringing this much offense otherwise all shooting before the bus but the primary goal of this ship in this list is to take fire and take a lot. Crew that require actions are out because you'll be boosting.

Modifications are numerous: Fire Control system ensures more TL/gunner shenanigans. Advanced sensors ensures you're actions are available and creates some extra fun with boost b4 move. Anti-pursuit lasers can be good but I havn't liked them over other options. An extra shield or hull could very well mean taking an entire other attack to bring down. An upgrade to Yorr helps the rest of your list stay mobile and in the fight.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So that's the list. And the options. Any I missed? What would you fly and why on your trip upon Baron Fell's Magic Space bus?

Edited by Rakky Wistol, 18 February 2014 - 11:40 PM.

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#2 DraconPyrothayan

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 04:16 PM

Definitely add the FCS. Its interaction with Gunner turns Moby **** into a Narwhal Crossbreed.
Specifically, it's the interaction of Han Shoots First, with a quarter of the firing arc, for half the cost.

The other two points could give you Backstabber and Mauler Mithel as your tie compatriots, for even more damage.

You could also load up the Bison Burger with a Saboteur, for better out-of-arc damage, or possibly a Mercenary Co-Pilot, because you've got the easiest time in the world at getting folks into Range 3. (On the one hand, STOP, on the other hand, BOOST. Wherever they are, you're getting crits!)



#3 SableGryphon

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 07:16 PM

Definitely add the FCS. Its interaction with Gunner turns Moby **** into a Narwhal Crossbreed.
Specifically, it's the interaction of Han Shoots First, with a quarter of the firing arc, for half the cost.

The other two points could give you Backstabber and Mauler Mithel as your tie compatriots, for even more damage.

You could also load up the Bison Burger with a Saboteur, for better out-of-arc damage, or possibly a Mercenary Co-Pilot, because you've got the easiest time in the world at getting folks into Range 3. (On the one hand, STOP, on the other hand, BOOST. Wherever they are, you're getting crits!)

This is my suggestion too. Definitely FCS. It's brutal when you give it a try.

 

I should point out that your costs are wrong. OGP + Gunner + FCS + Engine Upgrade is 32. You listed 32 for that without FCS. So, good news, you have two more points. :)

 

With that in mind, I would use Rebel Captive. Oh, it's so much fun on one of these Mystical Void Manatees. Because they WANT to shoot it when the start seeing the dice being thrown for its attacks, but then they don't want to attack it because they get stress. It's so much fun to watch them agonize. ;)


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Come on down to Sable's Shuttle Emporium for all your Alabaster Void Bison needs!

 

5 TIE Advanced, 6 TIE Bomber, 4 TIE Defender, 10 TIE Fighter, 6 TIE Interceptor, 4 TIE Phantom, 4 Firespray, 5 Lambda, 2 VT-49

7 A-Wing, 7 B-Wing, 3 E-Wing, 7 X-Wing, 4 Y-Wing, 6 Z-95, 4 HWK-290, 2 YT-1300, 2 YT-2400, 2 GR-75, 1 CR-90


#4 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 11:08 AM

Ha!  I bet I mentally had those 2 points reserved for it already...edited...

 

I would worry about the rebel captive because it might incentivize shooting at one of the ties or Baron instead.



#5 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:54 PM

Took this list through it's paces again.  FCS is definitely the upgrade for the shuttle.  Tried Yorr to keep stress off during Kturns and important rounds, it was useful but I don't know if it's more useful than other upgrades at the same cost.  I think my next run through is FCS + Stabber + Mauler to see if the extra offense puts up respectable numbers.  I think it might but I also think Nightbeast + Targeting computer at 17 might be better than Mauler since we don't have points to put an EPT on him.

 

Another thought: does flight instructor benefit the shuttle enough to warrant consideration?


Edited by Rakky Wistol, 13 December 2013 - 04:55 PM.


#6 SableGryphon

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:42 AM

Took this list through it's paces again.  FCS is definitely the upgrade for the shuttle.  Tried Yorr to keep stress off during Kturns and important rounds, it was useful but I don't know if it's more useful than other upgrades at the same cost.  I think my next run through is FCS + Stabber + Mauler to see if the extra offense puts up respectable numbers.  I think it might but I also think Nightbeast + Targeting computer at 17 might be better than Mauler since we don't have points to put an EPT on him.

 

Another thought: does flight instructor benefit the shuttle enough to warrant consideration?

No. Flight instructor is nigh useless on the shuttle for the points. You have a 25% chance of rolling a focus and a 37.5% chance of rolling an evade afterwards. So, for four points, you're looking at less than a 10% chance of avoiding a single damage. Definitely something to consider on the Firespray, but not on the space bison.


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Come on down to Sable's Shuttle Emporium for all your Alabaster Void Bison needs!

 

5 TIE Advanced, 6 TIE Bomber, 4 TIE Defender, 10 TIE Fighter, 6 TIE Interceptor, 4 TIE Phantom, 4 Firespray, 5 Lambda, 2 VT-49

7 A-Wing, 7 B-Wing, 3 E-Wing, 7 X-Wing, 4 Y-Wing, 6 Z-95, 4 HWK-290, 2 YT-1300, 2 YT-2400, 2 GR-75, 1 CR-90


#7 zymurgy65

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:48 AM

You could add the Recon Specialist. Combined with FCS and Gunner she gives the Voidani Space Whale some real punch. I'm going to try this setup next week. God bless my local games store - they have a games night every Wednesday!


Edited by zymurgy65, 14 December 2013 - 03:49 AM.


#8 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 11:36 AM

 

No. Flight instructor is nigh useless on the shuttle for the points. You have a 25% chance of rolling a focus and a 37.5% chance of rolling an evade afterwards. So, for four points, you're looking at less than a 10% chance of avoiding a single damage. Definitely something to consider on the Firespray, but not on the space bison.

 

 

Another thought: does flight instructor benefit the shuttle enough to warrant consideration?

 

I would only be using the set up on Jendon or Kagi and have only tried it with Kagi meaning you have a 100% chance to avoid one hit as long as the attacker is a lower PS (not too many above or on par with Kagi).  The one time I tried it with Kagi I also had a rebel captive onboard.  Higher PS pilots wouldn't shoot him he got free dodges on lower level pilots. 


Edited by Rakky Wistol, 16 December 2013 - 11:38 AM.


#9 SableGryphon

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:08 PM


I would only be using the set up on Jendon or Kagi and have only tried it with Kagi meaning you have a 100% chance to avoid one hit as long as the attacker is a lower PS (not too many above or on par with Kagi). The one time I tried it with Kagi I also had a rebel captive onboard. Higher PS pilots wouldn't shoot him he got free dodges on lower level pilots.

Oh? I must have misunderstood something about how Flight Instructor works then. Let me explain how I thought it worked, then I would appreciate if you could explain why I was wrong.

Captain Kagi's PS is 8. His special ability is that the enemy, when initiating a target lock, that lock must be on Kagi if possible. Flight Instructor has the following text:

"When defending, you may re-roll 1 of your eyetransparent.png results. If the attacker's pilot skill value is "2" or lower, you may re-roll 1 of your blank results instead."

So, when you are attacked, the attack itself is modified as normal. When that is complete, you get to roll your defense. On the alabaster orbital cattle, the evade dice is 1. You roll this single die (barring bonuses). If this result is an eye, you get to re-roll this defense die again. On the off chance your enemy has lower than 2 piloting skill, you may re-roll a blank as well.

Now, you can only re-roll any given die once. Ignoring the PS2 math for a moment, if you are attacked, you have a 3/8 chance to outright dodge, in which case Flight Instructor doesn't work. You have a 2/8 chance to get an eye. You can re-roll this eye, giving you a 37.5% chance to dodge on the re-roll.

I don't see how Captain Kagi impacts this roll at all, nor do I understand how he gets a 100% chance to avoid one hit, but I'd like to understand.

Edited by SableGryphon, 16 December 2013 - 12:08 PM.

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Come on down to Sable's Shuttle Emporium for all your Alabaster Void Bison needs!

 

5 TIE Advanced, 6 TIE Bomber, 4 TIE Defender, 10 TIE Fighter, 6 TIE Interceptor, 4 TIE Phantom, 4 Firespray, 5 Lambda, 2 VT-49

7 A-Wing, 7 B-Wing, 3 E-Wing, 7 X-Wing, 4 Y-Wing, 6 Z-95, 4 HWK-290, 2 YT-1300, 2 YT-2400, 2 GR-75, 1 CR-90


#10 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:39 PM

You are correct.  I'm not sure what I was thinking.  I've mixed up Flight Instructor with something that was more tied to the defenders PS.  I think I either forgot the "instead" part or I was remembering it as some combination of squad leader and flight instructor.  Which would be a cool card/unique pilot:

 

Imperial Flight Instructor: PS6, Unique, EPT, Tie Fighter.  When defending, you may re-roll 1 of your eyetransparent.png results. If the attacker's pilot skill value is lower than your, you may re-roll 1 of your blank results.



#11 zymurgy65

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 08:58 AM

Further to my post of 14 December, I tried this setup and got smashed! In my defence I have to say that Owen (my opponent) is a far more experienced gamer and Soontir Fel was the victim of some truly atrocious defence rolls. Owen used three X-wings(Garven Dreis and two rookies) backed up by Kyle Katarn and a recon specialist in the Moldy Crow. So. Many. Focus tokens! He closed the range so quickly the shuttle only got in two shots before it went kablooie, and Fel was killed in the following turn. Dark Curse and Night Beast battled bravely on but it was only a matter of time before they went the same way. Oh well, c'est la guerre.



#12 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 11:40 AM

You tried Recon with the shuttle? What was the rest of your set up?

My experience with this list is that a bad roll on Fell means the game is very uphill suddenly. More so than other lists maybe so you really have to know how to fly Fell. The second thing that has to happen is focus fire. Fell + shuttle + any tie should finish off one ship engagement round. If that's not happening it's also uphill.

#13 zymurgy65

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 05:30 AM

You tried Recon with the shuttle? What was the rest of your set up?

My experience with this list is that a bad roll on Fell means the game is very uphill suddenly. More so than other lists maybe so you really have to know how to fly Fell. The second thing that has to happen is focus fire. Fell + shuttle + any tie should finish off one ship engagement round. If that's not happening it's also uphill.

No, the recon specialist was in the Moldy Crow. I had an ion cannon in the shuttle. Basically I was throwing all blanks with Fel, while Owen was scoring 3 or 4 hits every turn. He's very fond of K-turns, and once he got behind the shuttle the game was as good as over.



#14 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:47 AM

Various tricks to shuttle deployment, that really improve performance, include, but are not limited to:

Shuttle Scuttle: tie fighters turn 1 in front of it turns 1-3. Barrel roll to further limit distance. Shuttle bumps from behind. You should have barely moved. The trick is making sure your tie is facing the right direction engagement round. Great with banks too to get the right angle.

Angled deployment. More dependent on astroid placement and opponent movement but if you can cut 20-30 degrees off your turn around by starting angled and using banks instead of straights you will likely still have at least one shot.

Edge hug. With the stop maneuver and boost maneuver you can hug the edge. Can't k turn behind you.

Full throttle. A staggered deployment where your shuttle speeds forward as fast as possible while your other ships start moving laterally. They can Kturn behind your shuttle for easy shots but that means they have to turn their back on the rest of your ships. Definitely takes practice.

I prefer the shuttle scuttle myself because I find it most useful for creating the furball where I want it and escaping it most easily. Not easy to do with this list as your actions and movements are a bit spoken for past turn 1-2.

Keep flying. You will achieve victory.

#15 SableGryphon

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:03 AM

Two other formations I've found for a three shuttle list.

 

Trident: My preferred deployment. One on either side of the board near the edge and one in the middle. If they set up in the middle, the center moves slow while the outer tines arc inward to catch them in crossfire. If they setup at one edge, that edge stalls while the center and far side race in to hit them from the side. Either way, by turn 2 you should have all your ships in engagement range.

 

Shuttle Herd: Setup the shuttles on the edge of the map (Yorr nearest the edge), angled towards the middle. Third is pointed directly towards your enemy or angled as well, as desired. All shuttles should be touching each other. The two edgemost ships should be setup in such as way that they cannot do a 1-forward action without bumping and ending up where they started. The innermost shuttle does stop maneuvers and dumps the stress on Yorr, who will immediately clear it. You can keep this position indefinitely, or spring out of it at the last minute if you sense weakness and feel you can pounce. I'm not a huge fan of this tactic, since it slows down the game and frustrates your opponent, but it is tactically sound.


Come on down to Sable's Shuttle Emporium for all your Alabaster Void Bison needs!

 

5 TIE Advanced, 6 TIE Bomber, 4 TIE Defender, 10 TIE Fighter, 6 TIE Interceptor, 4 TIE Phantom, 4 Firespray, 5 Lambda, 2 VT-49

7 A-Wing, 7 B-Wing, 3 E-Wing, 7 X-Wing, 4 Y-Wing, 6 Z-95, 4 HWK-290, 2 YT-1300, 2 YT-2400, 2 GR-75, 1 CR-90


#16 zymurgy65

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 04:57 AM

Thanks for the tips. I'll try them out after the holidays.



#17 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:46 PM

Reviving this list as it got me to Vader's Bounties (BH+recon+seismic X2 and Doomshuttle) and eventually to Scarlet Cowgirl. Cowgirl is still running strong, Nightbeast is getting a lot more press lately, and there are a lot of people asking for more Firespray (Baron's Focus).

Also dusted it off last night and saw it blast through a rebel swarm (8 hits and 2 crits on the first round of engagement makes a mess fast).

Linkage:
Vader's Bounties:http://community.fan...-vaders-bounty/

Edited by Rakky Wistol, 18 February 2014 - 11:49 PM.


#18 Ravncat

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 12:01 AM

Speaking of Shuttle Lists ...

I'm looking at
Alpha interceptor X4

Omicron Group + Vader

 

this comes in at 96 points, leaving four left over for what?
A royal guard? A saber with determination?
Intel agent and hull upgrade?
Drop vader and go with Engine upgrade + Adv Sensors?



#19 SableGryphon

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 07:16 AM

I think droping vader is the right way to go here. Especially since the shuttle has the highest PS on your side, meaning that your interceptors won't be able to strip shields for the first round of shooting.


Come on down to Sable's Shuttle Emporium for all your Alabaster Void Bison needs!

 

5 TIE Advanced, 6 TIE Bomber, 4 TIE Defender, 10 TIE Fighter, 6 TIE Interceptor, 4 TIE Phantom, 4 Firespray, 5 Lambda, 2 VT-49

7 A-Wing, 7 B-Wing, 3 E-Wing, 7 X-Wing, 4 Y-Wing, 6 Z-95, 4 HWK-290, 2 YT-1300, 2 YT-2400, 2 GR-75, 1 CR-90


#20 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 09:06 AM

So backstabber vs DC?

One is offense, one defense. One is an early game priority, one an end game allstar. One becomes priority one, the other is saved for last. Not sure which one I would want to take with me on the Baron's magic space bus or in the Focus list.




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