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Question on missed attacks in battle


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#1 la1cajun

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:40 AM

Just a clarification on these.

 

1) I attack with melee and roll an X so I get a complete miss and cannot use surges or anything else I rolled?

 

2) I perform a ranged attack and don't get enough numbers to hit with range. So i miss the hit but I didn't roll an X. Can I still use surges and such on this matter or is it considered a miss as if I would have rolled an X? 

 

Thanks

 

The Cajun



#2 griton

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:21 AM

FFG clarified (after going back and forth a bit) that if it's a Miss (regardless of how it's a miss), all other results on the dice are ignored.


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#3 la1cajun

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:29 AM

Thats what I would think too. I was watching a play by play on you tube and they came to a point like this and actually came back to it and said the answer from all areas was vague and played it out as if the range attack, even though was a miss, because it wasnt an X that they could still use the surges. But they still seemed unsure cause the rule book was vague as well as answers from FFG. 



#4 Robin

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:34 AM

As griton explained well, now the ruling is that all types of misses are treated the same way (which is the most simple way to do things, IMO).
An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#5 Varikas

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:50 AM

If you miss any attack you cant spend surges.

The only exception of that is if you  miss a ranged attack cause you dont have enught range, then you could use surges to gain more range and dont miss the atack, but you cant use surges to recover fatigue for example.



#6 Robin

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:08 PM

If you miss any attack you cant spend surges.
The only exception of that is if you  miss a ranged attack cause you dont have enught range, then you could use surges to gain more range and dont miss the atack, but you cant use surges to recover fatigue for example.

That was the old ruling.
Now, if you lack range, even with the help of a surge, you may not use surges at all.
An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#7 Lilikin

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:13 PM

 

If you miss any attack you cant spend surges.
The only exception of that is if you miss a ranged attack cause you dont have enught range, then you could use surges to gain more range and dont miss the atack, but you cant use surges to recover fatigue for example.

That was the old ruling.
Now, if you lack range, even with the help of a surge, you may not use surges at all.

What? Stupid ruling what is the point of ranged surge then? InRange is a Boolean (you have the range or you don't there is no 'more in range or less in range') so if you didn't have range you miss so you couldn't surge to make it up and if you did there is no need of it. DUMB


Edited by Lilikin, 12 December 2013 - 01:17 PM.

Wait lassie what's that noise? A few people telling FFG on a forum how to make their own games, well lassie that told them

I have three more ships than you so my opinion is twice as valid!!

#8 la1cajun

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 04:09 PM

so just strait up, you miss, whether with an X or lack of range, you cant use surges and you miss the attack. Easiest way to remember like that. I dont have my game yet, its coming in tomorrow, but do they have a hero that lets you use surges for extra range as Lilikin was saying. In what instance could you use the surge for extra range if you cant use it if you dont roll enough range to start with and its a miss? Like I said, I dont have the game yet so IM not sure if equipment or heroes may have a range surge like that.



#9 Varikas

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 04:59 PM

 

If you miss any attack you cant spend surges.
The only exception of that is if you  miss a ranged attack cause you dont have enught range, then you could use surges to gain more range and dont miss the atack, but you cant use surges to recover fatigue for example.

That was the old ruling.
Now, if you lack range, even with the help of a surge, you may not use surges at all.

 

So you are telling me that Justin said that all surges that give extra range are worthless?

where can we found that "new" ruling?


Edited by Varikas, 12 December 2013 - 05:05 PM.


#10 Lilikin

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 05:46 PM

so just strait up, you miss, whether with an X or lack of range, you cant use surges and you miss the attack. Easiest way to remember like that. I dont have my game yet, its coming in tomorrow, but do they have a hero that lets you use surges for extra range as Lilikin was saying. In what instance could you use the surge for extra range if you cant use it if you dont roll enough range to start with and its a miss? Like I said, I dont have the game yet so IM not sure if equipment or heroes may have a range surge like that.

so just strait up, you miss, whether with an X or lack of range, you cant use surges and you miss the attack. Easiest way to remember like that. I dont have my game yet, its coming in tomorrow, but do they have a hero that lets you use surges for extra range as Lilikin was saying. In what instance could you use the surge for extra range if you cant use it if you dont roll enough range to start with and its a miss? Like I said, I dont have the game yet so IM not sure if equipment or heroes may have a range surge like that.


also goblin archers have the same ability. I would find this ridiculous if it were the case. I am still waiting to see the hard evidence.
Wait lassie what's that noise? A few people telling FFG on a forum how to make their own games, well lassie that told them

I have three more ships than you so my opinion is twice as valid!!

#11 PlainWhiteBread

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 07:00 PM

 

If you miss any attack you cant spend surges.
The only exception of that is if you  miss a ranged attack cause you dont have enught range, then you could use surges to gain more range and dont miss the atack, but you cant use surges to recover fatigue for example.

That was the old ruling.
Now, if you lack range, even with the help of a surge, you may not use surges at all.

 

If that's so, then why even have +Range as a surge ability at all? If you made range in the first place, there wouldn't be a point to using them, especially when most ranged attacks don't have a benefit for rolling range in excess of your target.



#12 Light Bright

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 07:11 PM

@Robin

Explained well? Something isn't right.

Edited by Light Bright, 12 December 2013 - 07:13 PM.


#13 la1cajun

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:16 PM

Glad I posted this. Maybe well get clarification from FFG or something

#14 Robin

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 08:42 AM

 

 

If you miss any attack you cant spend surges.
The only exception of that is if you  miss a ranged attack cause you dont have enught range, then you could use surges to gain more range and dont miss the atack, but you cant use surges to recover fatigue for example.

That was the old ruling.
Now, if you lack range, even with the help of a surge, you may not use surges at all.

 

So you are telling me that Justin said that all surges that give extra range are worthless?

where can we found that "new" ruling?

 

Certainly not.

By saying "even with the help of a surge", I clearly explained that you can use a surge to get more range.

But if, "even with the help of" that "surge" you don't get enough range, your attack is a miss and you cannot use surges for other uses.

 

Here is the ruling, as indicated in the BGG wiki :

 

Q: Can you spend surges on a ranged "miss" to recover fatigue or activate other abilities?

A: If an attack misses, then no surge abilities can be spent. This means that an X, insufficient range, or lacking a surge to spend for "Shadow" causes an attack to miss. If by some means you convert a miss into a hit, then you are free to spend surges as normal.

http://boardgamegeek...ficial_FAQ#toc3

 

Here is the thread where the debate occured :

http://boardgamegeek...149251#12149251


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#15 griton

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 09:58 AM

I think basically what Robin intended is that if the range is 6, you roll 3 range, and can add 2 range from surges, then "even with the help of [those 2 range from] surges", it's still a miss, so you can't spend any surges.


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#16 Varikas

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:05 AM

That was exactiliy what I said...you only can use surges to gain more range, no to recover fatigue or use other abilitiies...and he said that it was the "old" ruling...I think that he just didnt understand what I was saying and create some confusion with that answer, cause it seems like nobody understand him, but well, now all has been clarifyed ^_^



#17 la1cajun

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 11:28 AM

that makes total sense. If you have 2 surges and only need one to complete your range attack, can you still use that other surge for whatever you need it for?



#18 Varikas

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 11:32 AM

that makes total sense. If you have 2 surges and only need one to complete your range attack, can you still use that other surge for whatever you need it for?

Yes, you can use it to recover fatigue, move the targeted monster...all what you want ;)



#19 la1cajun

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:22 PM

sounds good guys! Thanks for the info. Its all coming together now, or this situation anyway..lol



#20 Robin

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:43 PM

That was exactiliy what I said...you only can use surges to gain more range, no to recover fatigue or use other abilitiies...and he said that it was the "old" ruling...I think that he just didnt understand what I was saying and create some confusion with that answer, cause it seems like nobody understand him, but well, now all has been clarifyed ^_^

Ah yes. I misread you. I read your "cant" as "can", probably because you did not put an apostrophe in the expression.
Sorry for the confusion.
An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton




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