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Bomb teleportation


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#21 Kshatriya

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 09:18 AM

Same VU seems really underpowered. What's the advantage there over a standard boarding? Certainly quite inferior to assault boats at that point.

 

I also don't consider a Lathe launch bay's magnetic pressurization field to be on the same "density" level as a void shield to prevent teleportation. The whole point of it is to keep the component pressurized with air to allow craft to enter/exit without having a physical hangar door. That field has no ablative effect to counter attacks, or even entry/exit, so I wouldn't say it interferes with teleporting like a void shield would.



#22 WilliamAsher

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 03:19 PM

While I will be keeping my rules, I find the note about the Gellar Field causing problems with the teleport interesting.  While things do get through Gellar Fields, even when they stay up, it does seem that it would make it more difficult.  I may apply a -30 modifier if the Gellar Field is up.  The only question then becomes, what takes down a Gellar Field other than destroying the component?



#23 Erathia

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 05:05 PM

While I will be keeping my rules, I find the note about the Gellar Field causing problems with the teleport interesting.  While things do get through Gellar Fields, even when they stay up, it does seem that it would make it more difficult.  I may apply a -30 modifier if the Gellar Field is up.  The only question then becomes, what takes down a Gellar Field other than destroying the component?

 

That's pretty much it. The Imperium may be terrible about a lot of things, but they understand the importance of keeping Gellar Fields operational. I seem to recall that there was a piece of gear somewhere that would sabotage a ship to bring down its Gellar Field in the Warp, but I can't find it now.

 

I think that Gellar Fields aren't meant to be active when not in the Warp though. The Forsaken Bounty confirms it's not standard practice for it to be active in realspace, so I suspect that it's an either/or thing with Void Shields. 


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#24 Nameless2all

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 05:12 PM

Well fluff wise, the Gellar Field is only activated upon entering the warp. Hence, why they have the Emergency Gellar Field in ITS, pg 156. RAW, there is no reason why you would ever turn your Gellar Field off because the power output of it is already taken into account upon void ship creation. And there are no RAW on the effects of it being active all the time. Fluff wise there is, but RAW there is not. :(

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#25 Kshatriya

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 12:52 PM

Can a gellar field and void shields be active at the same time? If so what is the point of the consolidated voidshield/gellar unit from Hostile Acquisitions? A slight reduction in size/power consumed? Doesn't seem much worth it. I'd think if they were mutually exclusive typically, the HA component might be worth it.

 

In any case needing the gellar to be off to teleport has never been part of the fluff. Just void shields. 



#26 Erathia

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 01:50 PM

In any case needing the gellar to be off to teleport has never been part of the fluff. Just void shields. 

 

This is another reason why I think that the Gellar Field isn't on normally, because the Teleportarium very clearly moves people through the Warp, which is exactly what the Gellar Field is designed to prevent.


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#27 Errant Knight

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 11:54 AM

BFG rules state that teleportation can be attempted within 10cm of an enemy vessel and that works out to 1 VU in RT, for what that's worth.



#28 Nameless2all

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 12:00 AM

In any case needing the gellar to be off to teleport has never been part of the fluff. Just void shields. 

 

The reason why it isn't part of the fluff, is because the Gellar Field is never on unless the ship is in the Warp.  So, they had no reason to say the Gellar Field would need to be turned off in order to use the Teleportarium.  I'm pretty sure, in any FFG/GW book/RPG/comic strip/etc, they never tried to teleport someone while traveling in the warp, to/from another vessel (because this is usually the only time when the Gellar was active).

 

Edit:  Disregard this post, didn't realize I was 3 months behind the power curve.


Edited by Nameless2all, 31 March 2014 - 05:56 AM.

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#29 Tenebrae

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 03:30 AM

BFG rules state that teleportation can be attempted within 10cm of an enemy vessel and that works out to 1 VU in RT, for what that's worth.

so... you have 100 cm speed raiders in you BFG BBG? ;)

 

It works out to about 3 VU and to be honest, I figured that was the basis of the 5 VU limit for hit-and-run attacks given in the corebook.


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#30 Errant Knight

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:54 AM

I based my math on the range of the guns.  In BFG they are 30cm, 45 cm, and 60 cm.  In RT they are 3, 6, and 9.  There are exceptions, of course.  In BFG, teleportation attacks can only occur within 10 cm.  Some liberties have to be taken.  I used the shortest ranges, since that's where a teleportarium is used.



#31 Tenebrae

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 04:46 PM

I based my math on the range of the guns.  In BFG they are 30cm, 45 cm, and 60 cm.  In RT they are 3, 6, and 9.  There are exceptions, of course.  In BFG, teleportation attacks can only occur within 10 cm.  Some liberties have to be taken.  I used the shortest ranges, since that's where a teleportarium is used.

Except, the maximum range of the guns in RT is universally twice their listed range.

Eg, a Mars Macro cannon can hit a target up to 12 VU away, though with a -10 to hit beyond 6 VU.

 

By that calculation ofcourse the teleportarium reaches only 2 VU  anyway :-/



#32 Errant Knight

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 05:14 PM

I'ts been some years since I've played BFG, but I thought their ranges were also doubled and the listed range was merely effective range.  Is this not the case?

 

Regardless, the teleportarium is definitely a shorter range attack option than assault boats, which were essentially unlimited in BFG, though not so in RT RAW (which I also disregard, as with many of their rules, such as shields being good against every firing ship--in my campaign those are only good for an entire round---fleet engagements are over much faster this way).



#33 Tenebrae

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 03:35 AM

I'ts been some years since I've played BFG, but I thought their ranges were also doubled and the listed range was merely effective range.  Is this not the case?

Let's see... Left shift for shooting under 15 cm, right shift for shootinger over 30 cm. Lances never modified... nope. Not according to my copy of the BFG BBG anyway.

Regardless, the teleportarium is definitely a shorter range attack option than assault boats, which were essentially unlimited in BFG, though not so in RT RAW <snip>

Then you're mixing stuff up badly, I think.
The Assault Boats option from BFG is the Assault Boats option in BFK, meaning you need launch bays.
And while it's not exactly unlimited in RT/BFK, it's close enough for practical purposes.
The 10 cm 'teleport attack' from BFG is what they're trying to simulate with the 5 VU hit'n'run as far as I can tell, though they're broadening the definition to include "guys in smallcrafts".

#34 Errant Knight

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 08:11 AM

I'm not surprised if I'm mixing things up.

 

I don't recall Ordnance in BFG having a limit to the number of turns they can remain after launching.  In RT, I believe the limit is 4 turns.

 

In the final measure, we all house rules stuff.  I personally find murder servitors silly and disallow them.  On the other hand, ordnance has a very long range, as fighters and bombers have sleeping quarters in them and were used for long-range interplanetary scouting missions.  I don't use that limiting rule, hence I don't remember it.



#35 Nameless2all

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:15 PM

I'm not surprised if I'm mixing things up.

 

I don't recall Ordnance in BFG having a limit to the number of turns they can remain after launching.  In RT, I believe the limit is 4 turns.

 

In the final measure, we all house rules stuff.  I personally find murder servitors silly and disallow them.  On the other hand, ordnance has a very long range, as fighters and bombers have sleeping quarters in them and were used for long-range interplanetary scouting missions.  I don't use that limiting rule, hence I don't remember it.

Going totally off the OP.  Wasn't there a turn limit the game any way?  Like you have 7 turns to complete so and so objective, and whoever has the most points at the end wins?  If so, this would undoubtedly be the reason why they didn't implement Ordnance having any limits.


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#36 Annaamarth

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 04:06 PM

Returning the subject at hand to the original topic- teleporting bombs.

 

I would rule teleporting conventional munitions as identical to a hit and run attack, except you don't get to decide what you blew up.  IF the teleportarium was large enough to transport them, I could see using it to teleport a Torpedo warhead, in which case it would just count as one torpedo hit.

 

If the warhead so teleported was either Vortex or Atomic, I could see very bad things ensuing.


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#37 Errant Knight

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:06 PM

I would just make the whole thing backfire really badly so my players didn't try it again.  After all, if this were a viable tactic it would be common procedure.



#38 Annaamarth

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 03:23 PM

Teleportaria (Rogue Trader games aside) are not common, so it can't be a 'common procedure.'  Further, the 40k universe tends not to nurture creativity, so there could be a very strong "teleportaria are for moving people" mindset.

 

Do as you like; the ruling I'd use makes it a nerfed hit-and-run anyway (barring the usage of torpedo warheads).


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#39 Errant

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 07:04 PM

You can teleport atomics, so there's precedent for teleporting something on the scale of a macrocannon shell.



#40 Kasatka

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 04:50 AM

Atomics are fired IN a macrocannon shell or torpedo - they're not going to be any bigger than modern day nukes. But bear in mind that a standard bomb or macro shell or torpedo warhead isn't going to do a huge amount of damage to a ship if teleported inside - at most it would allow you to bypass the targets armour if you succeeded on the teleport action.
Atomics are so crippling because of the sheer force that can burst a ship apart from the inside, burning off atmosphere and slaughtering huge swathes of the crew, all in a matter of seconds. If the crew of a ship realizes you're teleporting standard munitions inside their ship they'll seal all their air-gates and blast doors and focus on getting their shielding back online so you can't teleport :P


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