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When to let PC's get ahold of "good" armor?


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#21 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 07:04 AM

Would an Inquisitor let his scrub low-level acolyte just loot a, say, plasma gun, something that is an ancient relic by definition and worth many times more than the Acolyte? I find this hard to believe. Nope, that goes straight to the Inquisition's treasury.



#22 Kshatriya

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 12:13 PM

 

 

Rank 1-3 flak/carapace if given automatically

 

 

The only PC options that start with armour better than Guard Flak are some of the Alternate Ranks from later supplements, and many of these are effected by rampant 'power-creep', so be sure to keep an eye out for that. Even the fans of the Crimson Guard Alternate Rank from The Lathe Worlds, for example, don't try to claim that it is fairly balanced against the other Rank 1 Careers...

 

You call it power creep, I call it "original DH baseline characters are pretty much squishy crap compared to what the Black Industries modules throw at you, let alone FFG modules/bestiaries."

 

I don't put on restrictions beyond what they can find with Availability modifiers for the world they're currently on. It's not game breaking to allow shopping trips when on, say, Scintilla or Malfi, for the rarer stuff (which is also quite expensive, and acolytes are hardly rolling in gelt). Carapace isn't remotely overpowered if characters are going up against Slaugth. The only truly overpowered stuff is Sororitas power armor, and even that won't save you against a lot of non-mooks.



#23 Kshatriya

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 12:16 PM

Would an Inquisitor let his scrub low-level acolyte just loot a, say, plasma gun, something that is an ancient relic by definition and worth many times more than the Acolyte? I find this hard to believe. Nope, that goes straight to the Inquisition's treasury.

It really depends on the Inquisitor, though. And the "ancient relic" stuff that is common in early DH books is pretty much not where the game went. They're still super rare, but they do exist and are still manufactured. Good luck affording one though, or finding an enemy with one to loot, given the rarity. 



#24 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:17 PM

I had Rank 1 characters go through Tattered Fates with pretty much no problem.

 

OK I gave them XP throughout but they were only late Rank 2 when they finished.

 

The Purge the Unclean adventures are also not combat heavy, except for the secongd a bit.

 

Anyway, IMO looting violates the spirit of the game. In my experience, of course.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 13 December 2013 - 02:18 PM.


#25 Kshatriya

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:40 PM

Well, the game assumes you take some random people from their normal jobs (which they may or may not be competent at) and make them undercover agents for Big Brother. That's essentially the conceit of Dark Heresy. In some cases I might tend to agree that certain careers wouldn't necessarily loot. But the game doesn't really consider the reality of being part of a larger organization, whether the Inquisition, the Arbites, the Adeptus Mechanicus, Imperial Guard, or the Ecclesiarchy (the latter 4 being large, established organizations that seem to imply their supply their members with gear for free when needed). In other words, a person would probably be issued gear to do their job (or money to buy gear). I don't see why, for example, an Assassin or especially Scum wouldn't grab a nicer gun from the cultists they kill; otherwise, they'll be stuck with the same crap for a long period of time given their extremely poor salary. OTOH, I could see ranking up Clerics, IG, Arbites, and AdMechs having more institutional support with their gear. Or even if not, an experienced cell is a valuable asset. A bunch of Rank 1s are very easily replaceable. Rank 5 is not, at that point you have a trained and experienced cell that is effective enough to survive, and should probably be treated as such. 

 

In the games I've played in, our Inquisitor starts out giving us jack. He has a lot of cells after all, and doesn't want to throw good money after bad on the off chance this group of fresh meat survives. But once we get to, say R3 or R4 he might start giving us one-time stipends before big missions, or giving us access to his personal armory (but only the worst stuff - Very Rare at best, haha) with a provision we need to bring it back in one piece.

 

Parts of the Haarlock Trilogy have the potential to be extremely deadly, beyond any reasonable means of preparing with purchased gear at the listed rates and salaries, unless there are timeskips where the cell is mostly doing research or prep work and accruing salary (which isn't unreasonable - getting through all the Haarlock stuff in under an IC year is far less reasonable to me). I like a challenge but I also would be pissed if the TPK resulted from us flat-out being outclassed by the module baddies without the GM using any brains to put us on close to an even playing field.



#26 Adeptus-B

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:42 PM

 

 

 

Rank 1-3 flak/carapace if given automatically

 

 

The only PC options that start with armour better than Guard Flak are some of the Alternate Ranks from later supplements, and many of these are effected by rampant 'power-creep', so be sure to keep an eye out for that. Even the fans of the Crimson Guard Alternate Rank from The Lathe Worlds, for example, don't try to claim that it is fairly balanced against the other Rank 1 Careers...

 

You call it power creep, I call it "original DH baseline characters are pretty much squishy crap compared to what the Black Industries modules throw at you, let alone FFG modules/bestiaries."

 

I don't put on restrictions beyond what they can find with Availability modifiers for the world they're currently on. It's not game breaking to allow shopping trips when on, say, Scintilla or Malfi, for the rarer stuff (which is also quite expensive, and acolytes are hardly rolling in gelt). Carapace isn't remotely overpowered if characters are going up against Slaugth. The only truly overpowered stuff is Sororitas power armor, and even that won't save you against a lot of non-mooks.

 

 

Slaugth are not intended to be Rank 1 Adversaries; by the time it's appropriate for PCs to be running into the Maggot-Men, they should be able to afford to buy their own Carapace armour.



#27 Kshatriya

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:58 PM

Tell that to the DH GM Kit. 


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#28 ThenDoctor

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 05:30 PM

Basically why I'm putting Maggots in the Meat pretty late campaign I plan on running.


Edited by ThenDoctor, 13 December 2013 - 05:31 PM.


#29 segara82

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 02:59 PM

Well, in my DH group i usually give them the opportunity to shop at the appropriate times. Like my last groupt started as several of them arrived on Pilgrims Pause per Pilgrim bark. On their way to the nearest resting local from the Ecclesiarchy the ran through 2 different market places. Why not spend some Thrones?

If the availability is higher than common i make a roll if it's on display. If they want something not on display AND the group has the time he can roll the dice for Inquiry, otherwise he lucked out.

And weapons and armour always cause my civilans/NPCs to react. So unless they are not on a combat op every (local) Arbites is going to ask them into which war they are heading, civiloians run away, gangers smell money/competition/trouble....

And i give them jobs where heavy/modern equipment is a huge disadvantage.

One of their next jobs is to sniff out a fugitive/tomb robber hiding on Heterodyne, a feudal world. Horses, black powder guns, iron and steel for weapons and armor ... and not one generator in sight to recharge a simple charge pack for a las pistol.


Courage is the mastery of fear - not the absence of fear


#30 ThenDoctor

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 01:53 PM

That's what campside fires and tech priests are for.



#31 Braddoc

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:27 PM

I had a munitorium set-up at the Tricorn where the acolytes could get gear on loan, from weapons to armour and other gear.  This allowed 2 things to happen:

 

1-I could reasonably control what they had; a rank 1 acolyte couldn't hope to get a carapace armour or boltgun (they're untested and unbloodied) but flak, lasguns, special gear like aupex, silencers and anything else up to scarce avail, no problem;  of course they had to pass a literacy test to fill up the paperwork properly to actually borrow the thing.  It wasn't a one shot deal mind you, they could roll as much as required but it ended up wasting precious time, and actually have a use for literacy.  The only other requirement was if they lost/damaged anything, part of their next pay(s) had a cut as to reimburse the item.

 

Now that they are rank 8+, and took the Quartermaster as a contact, they basically got the doors of the munitorium open for them, but even then, they already bought/borrowed/retrieve the weapons they need (They're less about having the most powerful gun/armour than what actually fits their character- so silenced autopistols, dual laspistols and shotgun for everyday operation- The Tech-Priest got implanted lasguns and weapon mechanrendrites because hey- cult of Sollex)

 

2-Since they got access to pretty much what they want/need, they had little need to loot (I think they only did that once, even then it was high end weapons like power sword and bolt weaponry, as the tech-priest was not going to let those just lying there on some feudal world filled with backwater yahoos) and they actually could save money to buy that one piece of fancy gear they wanted; keeping with the Tech-Priest, he bought all of his mechanrendrites and cybernetics implants he wanted without too much trouble as he didn't had to spend all that money on weapons, armour, gear and ammo.  The assassin got a best quality armoured bodygloves and some best quality Emperor's whispers. etc etc...

 

plus with a store they can borrow gear it feels more like they're part of some large organization instead of being dumped in a flask of mud and told to get busy chasin' heretics.


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#32 segara82

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 02:01 PM

@ThenDoctor: Campfire is no good choice, since it can permanently damage the charge pack.

And i meant that they occasionally get sent to planets where certain equipment is even more obvious and indescret than in a hive. That is not something you should use/have when you want to remain incongnito. Otherwise your prey will get away.


Courage is the mastery of fear - not the absence of fear





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