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The Inclusion of the Lightsaber


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#41 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 03:55 PM

I wonder if Auto-fire is easy to block.

All depends on how FFG decides to implement a blaster deflection mechanic.  Saga Edition had it so that a Jedi could deflect an autofire attack, but they still took partial damage if the attack would have otherwise hit (with main perks of autofire in Saga Edition being that it was an area attack and the ability to deal partial damage even on a miss).

 

My take has the Jedi and the shooter making a contested roll; if the roll is a tie or the Jedi wins, then Auto-fire is neutralized since the shooter failed to land a hit.  In the case of the Jedi winning, Auto-fire's not intended to be an option since my talent is just (as intended) just deals damage based on the weapon*.  There's no written provision for activating various qualities (or even a critical injury) on the Jedi's part if they win the contested roll, though the intent was "shot is deflected and the shooter eats their own blaster bolt."  As it stands, any GM's using said homebrew talent would have to decide if allowing the Jedi to activate things like Auto-fire or other activated qualities (such as Knockdown) is kosher for their table.  Seeing as how the talent only exists in one specialization (one that I noted should only be allowed with GM's express permission) and is a 4th Row talent, I don't see it as too horribly overpowering to allow the activated qualities from a shooter's weapon to be triggered if the Jedi had enough Advantage from the contested check to allow it, but I'd draw the line at being able to trigger a critical injury.

 

I am revisiting this, based on some feedback I got from one GM about how an NPC of his used this talent to lay waste to the party after the Bounty Hunter of the group opened fire with a heavy blaster rifle and having plenty of Advantage with which to trigger the Auto-fire quality.  I might outright disallow the Jedi being able to trigger activated qualities on the shooter's weapon, or increase the difficulty for the Jedi by one if the attacker is using Auto-fire.  The change is easy enough to conceptualize in my head, but the trick would be getting it through on paper.

 

*plus each success that the Jedi had over what the shooter got; so if the shooter used a heavy blaster rifle and rolled 3 successes while the Jedi rolled 4 successes on the contested roll, then it'd be the heavy blaster rifle's base damage +1.


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#42 Chortles

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 07:04 PM

Just to be sure if I'm reading this correctly, is the idea being to increase the difficulty of deflecting auto-fire and/or to 'mitigate' the Jedi's damage potential from redirecting fire?


 

Well, according to George Lucas, the Empire is intended to be bad guys and the Sith to be objectively evil.

Fans proceeded to immediately disregard his bull and have fun with the Empire and make believable characters left and right, and come up with sensible rationalizations east, west, north and south.

 


#43 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 04:34 PM

Just to be sure if I'm reading this correctly, is the idea being to increase the difficulty of deflecting auto-fire and/or to 'mitigate' the Jedi's damage potential from redirecting fire?

Yep.

 

Bad Dude with BFG uses Auto-Fire while at Medium Range, Jedi opting to save their bacon via Deflect Blasters would have a base difficulty of 3 Purple (2 for being Medium Range, +1 for Auto-fire) plus any defensive traits that Bad Dude might have (such as a defense rating or ranks in Adversary).  So in effect, the penalty for using Auto-fire gets applied to both the attacker and the Jedi.

 

Alternatively, I'm thinking of just saying "sorry, but the Jedi can't trigger any Activated qualities the attacker's weapon has" to keep things on the simple side and avert concerns of "Jedi = overpowered" by way of said Jedi making use of an Auto-fire weapon to decimate a bunch of non-minion targets in one go.


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#44 LordBritish

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 01:31 PM

Personally lightsabers haven't shown up in any campiagn I have played in yet. Though the attention gained by weilding such weapons would draw such a incredable amount of attention that they likely wouldn't be worth it. While on one hand they are easily the best weapons, using them in a campiagn with my DM's would likely result in a huge amount of attention by the entire galaxy.

 

Needless to say, we would be swarmed by all kinds of imperials before the end of the session or in the immediate future. So I can't see a situation where we would wield a lightsaber, except if we were going to go full hog rebel or betray the silly sod and hand him into imperial customs to get the heat away from us (Because we are from the group mentality that  every action carries a consquence, rather then an oppertunity. It's just dependant on how we carry ourselves.)

Of course, it's subject to campiagn feel but I would actually consider carrying one a disadvantage.

 

From a combat perspective? Yeah it's the best weapon in the game and Jedi have a tendency to be incredable pressences that change the nature of the party. I have too many nightmares of force users in the D20 system to allow any force user in a campiagn willingly, though that may be more to do with terrible roleplaying I've experienced in any force senstive campiagn and the overpowered nature of Jedi in that system in.

 

 

In short, not seen them and I hope not to. Lightsabers in party tends to lead to three things, trouble, overwheming (in both party and rp balience) and typically narrows campiagn path (due to imperial attention being relentless). Though thats just my largely poor experences with them in the past and not due to any experience I've had of them in this system.


Edited by LordBritish, 15 January 2014 - 01:38 PM.


#45 aramis

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 02:42 PM

 
From a combat perspective? Yeah it's the best weapon in the game and Jedi have a tendency to be incredable pressences that change the nature of the party. I have too many nightmares of force users in the D20 system to allow any force user in a campiagn willingly, though that may be more to do with terrible roleplaying I've experienced in any force senstive campiagn and the overpowered nature of Jedi in that system in.

the non-jedi in EotE and AoR are nifty, not over-powered, And seem only a hair more powerful than non Force Users.

Yoda: Unlearn your d20 fears, serve you here they will not.
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#46 LordBritish

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 05:43 AM

 

 
From a combat perspective? Yeah it's the best weapon in the game and Jedi have a tendency to be incredable pressences that change the nature of the party. I have too many nightmares of force users in the D20 system to allow any force user in a campiagn willingly, though that may be more to do with terrible roleplaying I've experienced in any force senstive campiagn and the overpowered nature of Jedi in that system in.

the non-jedi in EotE and AoR are nifty, not over-powered, And seem only a hair more powerful than non Force Users.

Yoda: Unlearn your d20 fears, serve you here they will not.

 

Let go.... of my hate? I CAN'T, THE DARK SIDE IS TOO STRONG! XD

 

In all seriousness, you are right. I don't think we will see any force senstives for a while though, thus far it's a general concensis that we are not making any force senstive characters until after a period of time.



#47 CStevenRoss

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 04:31 PM

I've thrown lightsabers into my games with zero troubles. They are a very powerful melee weapon, sure, but as far as abject lethality goes they're on par with some of the easier to get deadly weapons, disrupters for example.

FFG Star Wars combat very strongly favors the attacker, typically, and so a character brandishing a saber is just as vulnerable to attack as anyone else. Also, since the lightsaber generally does not get used trained, important NPCs with some decent deflecting armor and a couple ranks in Adversary slant the lightsaber into a clumsy and unreliable means of attacking, especially compared to the incredible accuracy of a character with a few ranks in the combat skill they are using.

Lightsabers are also so iconic in a Star. Wars for me. The campaign never really felt like it was truly Star Wars until enemies (and eventually player characters) starting brandishing them.

In short, I personally feel that you should all learn to stop worrying and love the lightsaber.
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#48 Norsehound

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 03:43 PM

For a bit of fun I put twelve light sabers in front of my players on an Alliance mission for Age of Rebellion. This was something of a side-quest, since their abduction target would be going there maybe and they had to kidnap him. The Musueum was having a display on the "Terror of the Jedi" for the benefit of Imperial officers. One managed to sneak in, find the lightsabers (there were Holocrons, but they were ignored), stole all of them and duck-taped them together to hold them. The Imperial guards fired on him, he got caught up in the sheet in front of the exhibit door, and ran out of the museum looking like a fireball clutching these Lightsabers.

 

Nine of them turned out to be fakes. Two of them were damaged, and one of them was working. Because I think he rolled a triumph I said this was the light saber that allegedly belonged to Count Dooku before his fall to the Sith. His character is a chaotic good Trandoshan programmer, and this is going to be interesting. He's unlocked force powers to try more chaotic mayhem (and on the dark side), but if he's not careful I might take it away from him. :P



#49 Jomero

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 05:12 PM

One of my PCs has a lightsaber, grandfathered in when I had them convert from Saga Edition to this one.  Fortunately, she rarely uses it because she's more of a healer and less a fighter (though she has used it to great effect on a couple occasions).

 

My campaign takes place in the Old Republic era though (about 300 years after SWTOR), so lightsabers aren't uber rare.  Cortosis also isn't quite as rare either (though only one of my players has some so far, and it was only gained after defeating the villain below).

 

The only other time a lightsaber has appeared so far in my campaign is when it was wielded by the spirit of Marka Ragnos, who possessed a stone statue of himself and wielded his personal blade from his sarcophagus.   Though the players wisely left the lightsaber in the tomb after they passed his trial.

 

Otherwise I have kept lightsabers rare in light of the fact that they aren't really rare by keeping the party on the fringes of space or, as they say, the edge of the empire.  On top of that, the Empire itself has been thought gone and long dead until very recently.


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#50 Tarkadhal

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:46 AM

No lightsabers in my game as of yet, but contact with them is not out of the question as one of the players has a patron in the empire.  As for untrained use, my idea was to throw in at lease one challenge die, if they roll a despair then it an auto self crit, I may let them know in advanve or I may let them chop of their own foot/hand






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