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Secutor class monitor cruiser build - what would you do?


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#1 Chopper Greg

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 12:21 PM

A few months ago I started a Secutor class cruiser build, based on 65 SP +/- 3 SP, but ran into a few problems, namely the wealth of options.

 

As I have been watching the What would you do with 85 SP and a Repulsive Grand Cruiser?

thread, I got some ideas but many would not be applied to the smaller ship ( or at least not as well as they would be applied to the larger ship ).  

 

 

I started off with the hull, and then added a Jovian Warcruiser Drive, Energistic Conversion Matrix, and Augmented Retrothrusters - to improve sprint speed and maneuverability.

 

I liked the idea of Disruption Macrocannon, and figured that the Dorsal position might provide the most flexibility for that weapon, but after that I just can't figure out what might be the most advantageous mix of other weapons and equipment for our group.

 

I do know that at this time, active flight operations are going to be minimal ( they may come up later ) so a large load of bombers, is not currently needed although a few landers and gunships would not be out of place.

 

What our group was looking for, was a build that was fairly flexible, that could operate either alone or as a part of a larger fleet ( be it as an escort to a larger ship or as the lead ship to smaller ships ).

 

Any ideas?

 

 



#2 Erathia

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 01:41 PM

Well your Energistic Conversion Matrix is your piece of Archeotech for the ship, though I certainly think it's a neat and overlooked component. The Augmented Retro-Thrusters are a nice component, but I play with a house rule that Light Cruisers can turn 90 degrees instead of 45, since that's the only way to make up for their (on paper) inferiority to Cruisers.

 

Disruption Macrocannons are good, but they don't scream "escort", because they don't do enough damage normally to incapacitate a ship, and they take awhile to do even that. If you want flexible, I recommend Lathe Grav-culverin Broadsides from Into the Storm, since they have good Strength/damage, and you can boost the range for a penalty to damage.I also recommend looking into getting a Torpedo tube for the Prow, since a volley of torpedos can ruin everyone's day, and perhaps a Sunsear for your Dorsal to give you superior range in the three firing arcs.

 

Secutors have four weapon slots of open choice for you to choose from, plus the potential for 2 Void Shields, it really is a ship built for war. 


Citizens of Grace! We have defeated both the Dark Eldar and Ork menaces that threatened your system! We need no thanks nor payments, so long as you do not leave the atmosphere during our salvage operations under pain of death! - Jequin Hos of The Hos Dynasty


#3 Chopper Greg

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:11 PM

I was thinking that the Disruption Macrocannon would be for those times that you wanted to capture a ship with minimum actual damage - I know they would be useful in a number of the games we will be playing.  

 

There in was the problem - what would be a good compliment to them.

 

I figured that most escorts of similar speed and maneuvrability wouldn't have but 2 or 3 weapon slots, and so the Disruption Cannons would be more of icing on the cake as it were. 

 

As to the torpedoes - they have always left me scratching my head as to if they were actually worth the points and space and the comments in the Repulsive Class thread, only added to the head scratching.


Edited by Chopper Greg, 07 December 2013 - 03:11 PM.


#4 Marwynn

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:40 PM

The torpedoes certainly had me scratching my head.

 

1) You roll to hit as if it were any other weapon, with degrees of success determining how many hit.

2) But that's apparently not what you do first (thanks to the wonderfully organized book). No, the target ship rolls crew rating + 5 for every turret rating it has. And a hit and sufficient DoS will destroy your precious torpedoes.

 

The potential to whiff very badly is there, and to do so expensively. There's potential for massive damage too.

 

If you're keen on the disruption macrocannons, I suggest pairing it up with another macrobattery on the prow. You can, theoretically, use the damaging macrocannons to strip shields for the disruptors. And if it's something you want to kill, then you use the disruptors to strip shields instead, if it does enough to unpower a component or two then all the better.

 

That's how I wanted to outfit an Orion at least.


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#5 Tenebrae

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:58 PM

One of my groups have used the archeotech torpedo launcher from the beginning of the campaign. The effects are devastating, and turrents have rarely been a major problem.

Not that this means it must be generally true, just that it has been true for us.

 

I have a few secutor designs somewhere, maybe I should dig them out again.



#6 Chopper Greg

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:28 PM

BTW, it appears that I forgot to mention about, taking the Turbo-Weapon Batteries upgrade for the Disruption Macrocannon, there by increasing range and accuracy.

 

 

If you're keen on the disruption macrocannons, I suggest pairing it up with another macrobattery on the prow. You can, theoretically, use the damaging macrocannons to strip shields for the disruptors. And if it's something you want to kill, then you use the disruptors to strip shields instead, if it does enough to unpower a component or two then all the better.

 

That's how I wanted to outfit an Orion at least.

 

 

I was actually thinking in those terms for a Meritech Raider build - again using more powerful engines and the Retrothuster / Energistic Conversion Matrix combination. :D

 

 

 

One of my groups have used the archeotech torpedo launcher from the beginning of the campaign. The effects are devastating, and turrents have rarely been a major problem.

Not that this means it must be generally true, just that it has been true for us.

 

I have a few secutor designs somewhere, maybe I should dig them out again.

 

Those are interesting - might even be worth taking a second look if we find ourselves with another archeotech space to fill. 

 

 

I would like to look at them if you don't mind.   The Secutor class, is one that I find to be as versatile the Repulsive class for it's size, and one that I have liked ever since Into the Storm came out.

 


Edited by Chopper Greg, 07 December 2013 - 07:35 PM.


#7 Tenebrae

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 05:35 AM

This was origically just me playing around with Sunsears and the Secutor.

I named it the "Sword of Sollex", after that laser-worshipping mechanicus sub-sect from IH.

GQ denotes a good quality component

 

Jovian "Warcruiser" Drive GQ

Strelov 2 Warp Engine GQ

Geller Fields

Multiple Void Shield Array

Command Bridge GQ

M-1.r Life Sustainer GQ

Clan-kin Quarters GQ

M-201 Auger Array GQ

Cargo Hold & Lighter Bay GQ

Sunsear Laser Broadside Port

Sunsear Laser Broadside Starport

Sunsear Laser Battery Prow

Sunsear Laser Battery Dorsal

 

The Clan-kin quarters are there to provide a small buff against boarding, while the cargo hold &lighter bay was mostly there to claim that there was some sort of cargo space. Unfortunatly, my notes have this design down as 70 SP.

 

The "equivalent" 65 SP design is this:

Jovian Pattern Class 3 Drive

Strelov 2 Warp Engine

Geller Fields

Multiple Void Shield Array

Command Bridge

M-1.r Life Sustainer

Clan-kin Quarters

M-201 Auger Array

Auxillary Plasma Bank

Sunsear Laser Battery x4

 which you will note uses an auxillary plasma bank, which is never a good idea.

 

I did however come up with this:

Jovian Pattern Class 3 Drive

Strelov 2 Warp Engine

Geller Fields

Multiple Void Shield Array

Command Bridge

M-1.r Life Sustainer

Clan-kin Quarters

M-201 Auger Array

Jovian Escort Launch Bay Port

Jovian Escort Launch Bay Starport

Sunsear Laser Battery Prow

Sunsear Laser Battery Dorsal

 

which is not only a carrier, but also only 64 points.

It's far from the perfect design (I usually prefer the Flight Bridge with carriers, and the Vitae pattern life sustainer), but it combines the hitting power of the sword class with (minor) carrier capacity and a fair bit of staying power.

It also has some space and power still unused, for you to install non-combat components into, or for upgrading that life support system.


Edited by Tenebrae, 08 December 2013 - 05:39 AM.


#8 Tenebrae

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 05:43 AM

At 75 points, this is a slightly different idea, (slightly) less of a warship, more focus on exploration

Again my spread sheet says it has some unused space and power.

 

Jovian Pattern Class 3 Drive modified - archeotech

Strelov 2 Warp Engine

Geller Fields

Multiple Repulsor Shield Array

Exploration Bridge

Vitae-Pattern Life Sustainers

Pressed Crew Quarters

R-50 Auspex Multi-band Array

Jovian Escort Launch Bay Port

Jovian Escort Launch Bay Starport

Sunsear Laser Battery x2

Trophy Room

Extended Supply

Vault Arboritum

Observation Dome

Thulian Exploration Vessel


Edited by Tenebrae, 08 December 2013 - 05:45 AM.

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#9 Wincent

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 12:23 AM

Sunsear on a prow (with maxed range) and landing bays on port and starport so you can get a lot of manpower into disrupted vessel. I don't know how your GM handle this, but just think that you can barter a lot of small craft even for a single captured (almost) intact wolfpack rider, no high PF needed.

With bays should always come small craft repair facility (don't remember proper name) witch can be useful also in repairing guncutters and other flyers from captured spacecraft.



#10 Tenebrae

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 06:55 AM

With bays should always come small craft repair facility (don't remember proper name) witch can be useful also in repairing guncutters and other flyers from captured spacecraft.

 

Absolutely!

And they are missing in all of my designs above (I think), because I was a tool back when I made them :)



#11 Marwynn

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 09:03 AM

SECUTOR Class Monitor Cruiser 
 
SPEED 5
MANOEUVRABILITY 14
DETECTION 13 
TURRET RATING     2
SHIELDS     Dual Void Shield 
ARMOUR     20    
HULL INTEGRITY     65
 
Skill Test Modifiers
Ballistic Tests 10, Navigation/Warp 5, Navigation/Combat 5, Navigation/Escape Combat 5, Navigation/Piloting 5, Manouvre/Stellar Phenomena 5, 
 
Achievement Bonuses
Achievement Bonuses: Trade + 100  Crime + 100  Explore + 100  
 
Essential Components
Jovian Pattern Class 3 Drive , Strelov 2 Warp Engine (CL,C) , Gellar Field, Ship Master's Bridge (C, CB, CG) , Vitae Pattern Life Sustainer , R-50 Auspex Multi-Band Auger Array , Voidsmans Quarters [C:POOR]
Supplemental Components
Cargo Hold & Lighter Bay, Augmented Retro Thrusters, Trophy Room, Add Energistic Conversion Matrix (Archeotech) [ PWR to SPD 4 for 1],Small Craft Repair Deck,
 
Complications / Past Histories
Stoic (Endeavour Profit Factor -1, If component DMG/unpowered roll 1d10, on >=7 ignore result),  Wolf in Sheep's Clothing (3 components don't show on scans OR appear as different Component of same type)
 
Weapons
Sunsear Laser Battery  [Strength: 4, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 9]  Location:PROW
Disruption Macrocannons  [Strength: 3, Damage:1d10+1, Crit Rating: --, Range: 5 >TURBO<]  Location:DORSAL
Jovian Pattern Escort Bay  [Strength: 1, Damage:x+x, Crit Rating: --, Range: ]  Location:PORT
Jovian Pattern Escort Bay  [Strength: 1, Damage:x+x, Crit Rating: --, Range: ]  Location:STARBOARD
 
 
That's 68 Ship Points, still has 1/1 Power/Space available. I made one of the components Poor quality to fit in the Small Craft Repair Bay. 
 
The Wolf in Sheep's Clothing will let you hide the escort bays until you launch something. Could be useful. Didn't use a Warcruiser though... ran out of space. You can use "Wrested from a Space Hulk" instead and get bonus speed and maneuverability, even armour. 

 


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The Blessed Enterprise - Flagship of the Strom Dynasty / Reception Hall


#12 Tenebrae

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 11:02 AM

If you can spare it, I can whole-heartedly recommend getting a Warp's Bane Hull, even if only Poor Quality.

 

The observation dome is very nice for Exploration I think.



#13 Erathia

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 01:30 PM

If you can spare it, I can whole-heartedly recommend getting a Warp's Bane Hull, even if only Poor Quality.

 

I really feel like there should be an additional penalty for this. Can you imagine the sales pitch by some merchant somewhere?

 

"Very high quality, excellent Gellar field. Keeps daemons away. Just salvaged it from a ship killed in a daemon attack. Probably not Gellar Field's fault. Inquisition suspects Tortilla Tuesdays."


Citizens of Grace! We have defeated both the Dark Eldar and Ork menaces that threatened your system! We need no thanks nor payments, so long as you do not leave the atmosphere during our salvage operations under pain of death! - Jequin Hos of The Hos Dynasty


#14 Chopper Greg

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 12:37 PM

 

SECUTOR Class Monitor Cruiser 
 
SPEED 5
MANOEUVRABILITY 14
DETECTION 13 
TURRET RATING     2
SHIELDS     Dual Void Shield 
ARMOUR     20    
HULL INTEGRITY     65
 
Skill Test Modifiers
Ballistic Tests 10, Navigation/Warp 5, Navigation/Combat 5, Navigation/Escape Combat 5, Navigation/Piloting 5, Manouvre/Stellar Phenomena 5, 
 
Achievement Bonuses
Achievement Bonuses: Trade + 100  Crime + 100  Explore + 100  
 
Essential Components
Jovian Pattern Class 3 Drive , Strelov 2 Warp Engine (CL,C) , Gellar Field, Ship Master's Bridge (C, CB, CG) , Vitae Pattern Life Sustainer , R-50 Auspex Multi-Band Auger Array , Voidsmans Quarters [C:POOR]
Supplemental Components
Cargo Hold & Lighter Bay, Augmented Retro Thrusters, Trophy Room, Add Energistic Conversion Matrix (Archeotech) [ PWR to SPD 4 for 1],Small Craft Repair Deck,
 
Complications / Past Histories
Stoic (Endeavour Profit Factor -1, If component DMG/unpowered roll 1d10, on >=7 ignore result),  Wolf in Sheep's Clothing (3 components don't show on scans OR appear as different Component of same type)
 
Weapons
Sunsear Laser Battery  [Strength: 4, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 9]  Location:PROW
Disruption Macrocannons  [Strength: 3, Damage:1d10+1, Crit Rating: --, Range: 5 >TURBO<]  Location:DORSAL
Jovian Pattern Escort Bay  [Strength: 1, Damage:x+x, Crit Rating: --, Range: ]  Location:PORT
Jovian Pattern Escort Bay  [Strength: 1, Damage:x+x, Crit Rating: --, Range: ]  Location:STARBOARD
 
 
That's 68 Ship Points, still has 1/1 Power/Space available. I made one of the components Poor quality to fit in the Small Craft Repair Bay. 
 
The Wolf in Sheep's Clothing will let you hide the escort bays until you launch something. Could be useful. Didn't use a Warcruiser though... ran out of space. You can use "Wrested from a Space Hulk" instead and get bonus speed and maneuverability, even armour. 

 

 

While it does sound like an interesting build, most of the group ( including the GM ) do not have a good feel for how large groups of small craft should be handled, and when added to the fact that currently each player has specific rolls to play in a space battle, and that would significantly change, by going with a 'pocket carrier', so the likelihood of using a ship with anything other basic flight operations ( lander and occasional gunship use ), is very low.    As such my group likes to stay with more classic cruiser designs, based on gun builds - heck one of the group once even suggested that we mount a nova cannon on the prow and play more of a space going sniper ( with a Manufactorum to build the warheads ) and I don't think that there was anyone in the group that didn't like that idea to one degree or another.



#15 Marwynn

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 12:48 PM

Fair enough, I extrapolated too much from your initial post.

 

Also, Nova Cannon are Cruisers-only and the Secutor is a Light Cruiser. But of course that doesn't matter if your GM's fine with it. It sounds like an intriguing setup. 


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The Blessed Enterprise - Flagship of the Strom Dynasty / Reception Hall


#16 Chopper Greg

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 02:29 PM

The GM's only comments on the subject was:

 

"Light Cruisers are just smaller cruisers - the fact that they have Cruiser in the name already gives some justification to take 'Cruiser Only' components if they can find the space and power".

 

He then pointed out that there is also the fact that even according to game fluff:

 

" Monitor - Cruisers were built specifically to give Light Cruiser size hulls, the firepower of full size Cruisers at the expense of the speed and maneuverability that a Light Cruiser would normally have - so it makes sense, for Monitor - Cruiser's to be able to take Cruiser Only components even if the original size of the ship is Light Cruiser ".  

 

 



#17 Wincent

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 12:31 AM

You already have Ship Master's Bridge so there's precedens. But Nova Cannon on a LC - not in my taste.

 

Back to your build: your ship gonna capture and cannibalize other ships so most likely you'll get basic supplemental components for (almost) free. As such I'd skip taking most of then (well, all of them except repair deck and matrix) and use saved SP to get best quality goodies - i.e. bq disruption cannon, which should make good impact on your gains.

 

Secondly just possesing archeotech and bq components - in theory, depents on your GM - mean better times at bartering with AdMech. Even if just fluffwise: "venerable Arch Magos as you can see the Machine Spirits of this technical marvel are content aboard this ship, I can assure you than same'll happen with this <insert component>".

 

edit. And Miloslav warp engine can save you 2 power - something to consider thinking about energy matrix.


Edited by Wincent, 11 December 2013 - 12:39 AM.


#18 Marwynn

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 02:32 PM

Well, if you guys really want the Nova Cannon, you get into the really pricey range. 73 SP is about the max, 5 points above what you listed.

 

I fit in a Cargo Hold and Lighter Bay (costing 3 Man) which will house your craft and loot. I was going to put in a Trophy Room, but the Manufactorum to build your nova cannon shells takes priority.

 

Not too happy with the port/starboard weaponry, if you can find 2 space you can fit in Mars broadsides instead. I couldn't fit in a Warcruiser either, so the 2 space could go to that.

 

(If your group's feeling dangerous, you can get the Wrested from a Space Hulk quality for +1 Speed, +3 Man, +1 Armour and plenty of rope for your GM to hang your entire group with.)

 

 

SECUTOR Class Monitor Cruiser 
 
SPEED 5
MANOEUVRABILITY 17
DETECTION 20 
TURRET RATING     2
SHIELDS     Dual Void Shield 
ARMOUR     20    
HULL INTEGRITY     65
 
SPACE AVAILABLE     58 POWER AVAILABLE:     65
SPACE Left Over           3 POWER USED               59
 
Skill Test Modifiers
Ballistic Tests 5, Navigation/Warp 10, Command  5, 
 
Achievement Bonuses
Achievement Bonuses: Trade + 110  Crime + 100  Explore + 50  
 
Essential Components
Jovian Pattern, Class 4.5 'Warcruiser' Drive (LC) , Strelov 2 Warp Engine (CL,C) , Gellar Field, Command Bridge (CL,C,CB,CG) (If CRIT'd Unpowered on roll of 3+ on d10) , Vitae Pattern Life Sustainer , M-201b Auger Array , Voidsmans Quarters
 
Supplemental Components
Cargo Hold & Lighter Bay, Augmented Retro Thrusters, Manufactorum, Add Energistic Conversion Matrix (Archeotech) [ PWR to SPD 4 for 1],
 
Weapons
Mars Pattern Nova Cannon [Damage: 2d5+4, Range: 6-40] Location: PROW
Disruption Macrocannons  [Strength: 3, Damage:1d10+1, Crit Rating: --, Range: 5]  Location:DORSAL
Sunsear Laser Battery  [Strength: 4, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 9]  Location:STARBOARD
Sunsear Laser Battery  [Strength: 4, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 9]  Location:STARBOARD
 
 

The Secutor, and really all Light Cruisers, need some House Rules I fear. A Lunar seems such a great deal for only 2 more SP.


The Gathering Strom  - A Chronicle of Intrigue, Space Battles, Planetary Invasions, and Dinner Parties

The Blessed Enterprise - Flagship of the Strom Dynasty / Reception Hall


#19 Erathia

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 03:35 PM

The Secutor, and really all Light Cruisers, need some House Rules I fear. A Lunar seems such a great deal for only 2 more SP.

 

This is why I give Light Cruisers a 90-degree turning ability, but I would also not allow them to have a Nova Cannon.


Citizens of Grace! We have defeated both the Dark Eldar and Ork menaces that threatened your system! We need no thanks nor payments, so long as you do not leave the atmosphere during our salvage operations under pain of death! - Jequin Hos of The Hos Dynasty


#20 WilliamAsher

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:48 PM

  The only thing I could suggest for a ship designed to capture other ships is to maximize your boarding ability.  This is at least partially maxing the Command of your RT.  It would require quite a different fit, but the Energistic Conversion Matrix lets you get in fast, and the ship is tough enough to survive closing and boarding.  My players are about halfway through refitting a Repulsive Class Grand Cruiser, and they have fitted it with the Matrix (Max spd of 10) and plan to use it for just that tactic as well.

 

  I feel that the Matrix is really underestimated, especially on larger ships.  You can have a heavy ship that is raider fast, but able to slow down to cruiser speeds as a free action.  That means that you can pull tighter turns than a raider when you want to.  For a boarding ship, you can achieve amazing speed by shunting weapons power to drives.  You can't shoot and board anyways, so no reason not to use the tactic.  Popular ideas seem to be turning off the Warp Drive for speed.  That is pretty much a free 2 points of speed.  When running or closing being able to shut down weapons means that you can maintain +5 speed until you need to really lay out the suffering.






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