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#1 TK Ghost

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 03:18 PM

After many deep and profound brain things inside my head, I've come to the conclusion that Dark Heresy 2nd Edition is just not worth investing in. For me Dark Heresy, the original, is still a good playable game which doesn't need to be brought in line with the other games.

 

Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade and Only War are meant to have stronger characters and powerful adversaries. Dark Heresy is for the average Joes of the Imperium. It isn't perfect. But most of what needs adding to or changing can easily be house ruled.

 

What the original offers:

 

(1) Characters who are not impressive when they start

(2) Plenty of homeworld options, which supplements and other games add to.

(3) Loads of skills and talents

(4) Loads of psychic powers

(5) Acolytes need to pay their way, rather than being exempt from having to spend money to aquire weapons, armour and gear.

(6) What may be lacking from the rulebook is well covered in supplements.

(7) Anything not covered in the rulebook and supplements can easily be gleaned from other games and their supplements.

 

So it may be an old, outdated dinosaur but it will likely stand the test of time long after 2nd Edition has lost it's "new toy" appeal.

 

That's what I think anyway.


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#2 Adeptus Ineptus

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 03:29 PM

You're not alone but I hope to be convinced this games worth getting.

Please FFG :unsure:



#3 TK Ghost

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 03:32 PM

You're not alone but I hope to be convinced this games worth getting.

Please FFG :unsure:

 

If it was an improved Dark Heresy, with a few exciting new things, then I'd bite.


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#4 Adeptus Ineptus

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 03:39 PM

There's alot of good ideas on this forum, many not even mine, that FFG could use.

I hope we see something worth getting when the beta is done.



#5 Nimsim

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 05:13 PM

Thanks for making this new thread to tell everyone. I was really wondering what you were going to decide but I also didn't want I check the thread you'd already made about this because that would have made sense. I'm really glad you're a part of the community here.
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#6 cps

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 05:48 PM

Thanks for making this new thread to tell everyone. I was really wondering what you were going to decide but I also didn't want I check the thread you'd already made about this because that would have made sense. I'm really glad you're a part of the community here.

I too am thankful the update. I was really worried you and your group would dive head-first into the titular game of these forums and not have fun. Now that I know you're not even going to try, well that's one worry off my plate.



#7 Morangias

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 05:53 PM

The quality of discussion and feedback on this beta has reached rock bottom. But at least the sarcasm is of prime quality, so we got that going for us, which is nice.

 

*walks away to hang himself*


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#8 Adeptus Ineptus

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 05:55 PM

I was hoping we could have a thread with no profile pics but you 2 had to go and spoil it now peaple will have some idea where in the thread they are without stoping to read.



#9 Tom Cruise

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 06:12 PM

Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade and Only War are meant to have stronger characters and powerful adversaries. Dark Heresy is for the average Joes of the Imperium.

 

Wait, so the most elite organisation in the Imperium with access to unlimited resources is for average joes, but the Imperial Guard is for stronger characters?

 

 

 

What.


Edited by Tom Cruise, 02 December 2013 - 06:12 PM.

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#10 Adeptus Ineptus

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 06:47 PM

Just go with it :rolleyes: I admit I like the throw a ton of nobodys at the galaxy and train any who live more than I can justify it but I can see the point of using throw away teams. :ph34r:



#11 Ouroboros13

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:51 AM

To each there own, but I loathed the "keep track of every coin" and "you start as a rookie arbite/apprentice tech-priest/junior-under-secretary-adept" aspects of DH 1. I felt they neither fit with the source material (primarily the Eisenhorn and Ravenor books) nor made the slightest bit of sense; even if the Inquisitor wants disposable teams, surely there are sufficient Guardsmen, Arbites and Adepts in the galaxy that he can at least assemble a team who aren't on the first day of the job when they are seconded to the Inquisition?

 

I mean, if it's what you want, go nuts; I'm not going to tell you you're playing wrong. But the sentiment "Inquisitorial operatives should be insignificant nobodies, not big damn heroic badasses like you'd fine in the Imperial Guard!" is one I find... difficult to endorse.


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#12 Morangias

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:36 AM

 

Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade and Only War are meant to have stronger characters and powerful adversaries. Dark Heresy is for the average Joes of the Imperium.

 

Wait, so the most elite organisation in the Imperium with access to unlimited resources is for average joes, but the Imperial Guard is for stronger characters?

 

 

 

What.

 

 

 

To each there own, but I loathed the "keep track of every coin" and "you start as a rookie arbite/apprentice tech-priest/junior-under-secretary-adept" aspects of DH 1. I felt they neither fit with the source material (primarily the Eisenhorn and Ravenor books) nor made the slightest bit of sense; even if the Inquisitor wants disposable teams, surely there are sufficient Guardsmen, Arbites and Adepts in the galaxy that he can at least assemble a team who aren't on the first day of the job when they are seconded to the Inquisition?

 

I mean, if it's what you want, go nuts; I'm not going to tell you you're playing wrong. But the sentiment "Inquisitorial operatives should be insignificant nobodies, not big damn heroic badasses like you'd fine in the Imperial Guard!" is one I find... difficult to endorse.

Yes. Frankly, I find the idea inane. It's not like an experienced Arbite is somehow less disposable in the Imperium, certainly not as far as the Inquisition is concerned.

 

I've said that numerous times, I'll say it again - DH1 is WFRP In Spaace, a game about random murderhobos roaming the world of 40k, with the Inquisition hastily slapped on top of it as a rather thin justification. DH2 cuts off the "fat" and is a "specialist game" like all other titles in the 40k library, which is a good thing in my book.


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There is no constancy in flesh, only decay.
There is no certainty in flesh but death.


#13 Adeptus Ineptus

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:45 AM

I've said that numerous times, I'll say it again - DH1 is WFRP In Spaace, a game about random murderhobos roaming the world of 40k, with the Inquisition hastily slapped on top of it as a rather thin justification. DH2 cuts off the "fat" and is a "specialist game" like all other titles in the 40k library, which is a good thing in my book.

 

This bit I agree with but I still don't see 30+2d10 as ok.



#14 Routa-maa

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:54 AM

 

Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade and Only War are meant to have stronger characters and powerful adversaries. Dark Heresy is for the average Joes of the Imperium.

 

Wait, so the most elite organisation in the Imperium with access to unlimited resources is for average joes, but the Imperial Guard is for stronger characters?

 

What.

 

To each there own, but I loathed the "keep track of every coin" and "you start as a rookie arbite/apprentice tech-priest/junior-under-secretary-adept" aspects of DH 1. I felt they neither fit with the source material (primarily the Eisenhorn and Ravenor books) nor made the slightest bit of sense; even if the Inquisitor wants disposable teams, surely there are sufficient Guardsmen, Arbites and Adepts in the galaxy that he can at least assemble a team who aren't on the first day of the job when they are seconded to the Inquisition?

 

I mean, if it's what you want, go nuts; I'm not going to tell you you're playing wrong. But the sentiment "Inquisitorial operatives should be insignificant nobodies, not big damn heroic badasses like you'd fine in the Imperial Guard!" is one I find... difficult to endorse.

Yes. Frankly, I find the idea inane. It's not like an experienced Arbite is somehow less disposable in the Imperium, certainly not as far as the Inquisition is concerned.

 

I've said that numerous times, I'll say it again - DH1 is WFRP In Spaace, a game about random murderhobos roaming the world of 40k, with the Inquisition hastily slapped on top of it as a rather thin justification. DH2 cuts off the "fat" and is a "specialist game" like all other titles in the 40k library, which is a good thing in my book.

 

What no more this

maxresdefault.jpg

 

Me and my friends upped the starting stats to 25+2d10 when we started playing DH 1st after this came too common scene in fights. Even with Aim, red dot laser sight and short range most fight rolls went in line: Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Hit \o/


Edited by Routa-maa, 03 December 2013 - 05:56 AM.

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#15 Eisenhorn_Puritus

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 06:10 AM

I agree with the non-incompetent character creation. It doesn't have any sense at all for an Inquisitor, who can choose almost anyone into their cells to pick a group of guises who cannot even get information from a gossip addict old women in the market. No way xD.

 

When I started running DH 1.0 with my players I made them to start at rank three. Sure it made the creation far longer, but they agreed about the incongruity of the too low level characters.


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#16 Scyndria

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 06:35 AM

 

Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade and Only War are meant to have stronger characters and powerful adversaries. Dark Heresy is for the average Joes of the Imperium.

 

Wait, so the most elite organisation in the Imperium with access to unlimited resources is for average joes, but the Imperial Guard is for stronger characters?

 

 

 

What.

 

ilm like, wtf too >.<



#17 Tenebrae

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:42 AM

I'd personally rather roll (3k2)+20 for stats than 2d10+25.

Meaning you roll 3d10, but keep only 2 of them, of your choice (= the highest).



#18 Adeptus Ineptus

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:20 AM

Sounds good to me.



#19 nultaar

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:17 AM

I'd personally rather roll (3k2)+20 for stats than 2d10+25.Meaning you roll 3d10, but keep only 2 of them, of your choice (= the highest).

isn't it currently the following for dice roll?
plus stat : 25 + (3d10, discard the lowest)
Normal stat : 25 + (2d10)
minus stat : 25 + (3d10, discard the highest)

which if my sums where correct give an average result of about 36. The point buy is obviously different meaning you can i think get 37 average in most stats.

edit : sort the first avg, thanks to AtoMaki for the catch.

Edited by nultaar, 03 December 2013 - 09:44 AM.


#20 AtoMaki

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:30 AM

 


isn't it currently the following for dice roll?
plus stat : 25 + (3d10, discard the lowest)
Normal stat : 25 + (2d10)
minus stat : 25 + (3d10, discard the highest)

which if my sums where correct give an average result of about 32. 

 

Uhm... 25+2D10 is 35 (or 36) on average. 


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