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What would you do with 85 SP and a Repulsive Grand Cruiser?


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#41 Erathia

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:21 PM

As for DoS: personally, I always assume point buy, since assuming rolled stats just means you just shrug your shoulders and have nothing to work with. Assuming your arch-militant is of the standard shooty variant (Fortress World - Stubjack - Call to War and 20 points into BS), he should have 70 BS at the start of the game. 

 

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only GM on this forum with players who don't do character creation to try and max out one single statistic before the game begins... setting aside the Astropath who started with WP of 62 anyway. Still though, by the time you hit Rank 3 or 4, your players should be rolling at a target of over 100 in something at least once a session.

 

This is why I really like Hecutors, because they have a Strength of 3, but after that you hit the Crit Rating which is where it shines. Being able to deal multiple critical hits with each volley is what makes it stand out to me.


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#42 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:33 PM

Also, Hecutors or Sunsears work nicely together with Godsbane (bring VS down with the battery, cut through the armor with the later).


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#43 htsmithium

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:37 PM

well as a gm I never allow point buys, mostly because a few really bad experiences with min/maxers. the campaign I started a few weeks ago I let the players pick there path, but would not tell them what they got until they where done...this has led to a death-world navigator with a fel of -1 when he talks to anyone dirtside and a missionary with enemy ecclesiarchy.

 

as for the grand cruiser you could always drop down to two really good raiders. with 85 that is 43/42 for each. meritechs start at 34 which leaves you with 9/8 SP per ship for toys, that actually gives you one more SP to equip them with compared to an repulsive. granted you may not be able to go best quality on everything, but you could start with two very decent ships and could even have them perform different roles...i.e one a gunship and the other be a hit and run specialist or such.


Edited by htsmithium, 04 December 2013 - 12:38 PM.

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#44 Magellan

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:44 PM

The Avenger is a work of art, 'tis true. My personal favourite if I'm not making a battlecruiser. Do note that even if your GM allows you to use Castellan shields with grand cruiser triple shields, they only work against one opponent per turn. That opponent will be pretty much shut down, sure, but it's still only one opponent.

 

Before you ask: excess void armour is from an adventure path, so that's another thing you'll have to clear with your GM.

 

Ultimately, I should make it clear that you don't *need* to be nowhere near as killy as the mega-sunsear-monster I put together up there. You could totally go Prow: Nova Cannon, Dorsal: Bombardment cannon (or take two BCs), two broadsides and two hangar bays and still tear up the entire Expanse, unless your GM is a cruel, unforgiving bastard like me.

 

--------------

 

No, Erathia, you're not. Rolled stat-games abound all over the internet, and for those players it's just a matter of spreading your cheeks before the throbbing members of the random number gods.

 

Unless you actually roll well on something, in which case it's time to change careers and start maxing that stuff like there's no tomorrow.

 

As for the Hecutors' critting ability: I suppose, but they still take a lot of power, and by the time you've tallied up your macrobattery damage your opponent will be dead anyway, so there'll be nothing left to crit.

 

--------------

 

Htsmithium: Are you using NPCs as statted by FFG, or anything near the same power level? Those things are abysmally weak and useless, and will be flattened by any half-decent PCs - even those using rolled stats, I'll bet.

 

Either of those raiders will be taken down by one volley of a single gun on the GC, just sayan'.


Edited by Magellan, 04 December 2013 - 12:47 PM.

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#45 htsmithium

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:05 PM

actually I meant if the ships were crewed by the pc's.

To be honest I did not notice the part where the OP said he did not want to uprage his ship, I figured be able to start with a small fleet to build upon would be cool.


 ding dong mala mortuus est,

quem veteres strigam

impii strigam

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#46 Marwynn

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:16 PM

I was thinking of using a Mars Nova Cannon, Sunhammer Lance Battery, then 4 x Sunsear Las-Broadsides on the Repulsive. Should I swap out the Sunhammer for a Godsbane or Voidsunder? 

 

And yeah, we kind of want to stick with just one ship. We may get more ships (if they're salvageable), but upgrading to a bigger ship feels wrong. 

 

How useful is the Nova Cannon anyway? I used to use those in BFG back when you had to guess the distance. 


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#47 Magellan

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:50 PM

Nova cannons are pretty crap. *If* you roll high on your 1d5 you can do a lot of damage, and *if* you have a massive range advantage you can fire it up to 80VU for a couple of turns while your opponent struggles to close. Otherwise it's really mediocre and expensive. Great for planetary bombardment, though, if you didn't need the planet for anything.


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#48 Marwynn

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 03:51 PM

Man, it looks like all the fun weapons are rather useless without some house rules. 

 

Here's the latest 85 point attempt. Nothing fancy, no archeotech either. I'll have to ask about that Castellan Triple Void Shield. I tried to incorporate the Hecutors because I do like the added range. 

 

(The upgrades (Displays of Wealth and Stormtrooper Detachment) were set by the GM. Which leads me to believe that the Stormies are chaos scum and the displays of wealth are all forgeries, leading to some embarassment. Or they're stolen. Or cursed. Or both.)

 

How useful is maneuverability for a large ship like this?

 

 

REPULSIVE Class Grand Cruiser 
 
SPEED 6
MANOEUVRABILITY 18
DETECTION 15 
TURRET RATING     3
SHIELDS     Triple Void Shield
ARMOUR     20    
HULL INTEGRITY     81
 
SPACE AVAILABLE     90 POWER AVAILABLE:     95
SPACE Left Over           8 POWER USED               95
 
Skill Test Modifiers
Ballistic Tests 10, Navigation/Warp 5, Navigation/Combat 5, Navigation/Escape Combat 5, Navigation/Piloting 5, Social 10, CMD/Hit&Run 20, CMD/Boarding Action 20, CMD/Hit&Run (Def) 20, CMD/Boarding Action (Def) 20, 
 
Achievement Bonuses
Achievement Bonuses: Trade + 125  Crime + 125  Creed + 100  Military + 100  Explore + 100  
 
Essential Components
Saturnine Pattern, Class 5 Drive (Grand Cruiser) , Miloslav H-616.b Warp Engine (CL,C) , Warpsbane Hull, Emergency Field (Roll 1d10, on 3+ Geller Field Activates if vessel is drawn into the Warp), Ship Master's Bridge (C, CB, CG) , Vitae Pattern Life Sustainer , M-201b Auger Array , Voidsmans Quarters
 
 
Supplemental Components
Cargo Hold & Lighter Bay, Barracks, Temple Shrine to the God Emperor, Trophy Room, Observation Dome, Ostentatious Displays of Wealth (Common Quality), Storm Troopers [x2HI Dmg H&R Attacks; +1d5Dam to Crew in DEF Boarding Actions],
 
Complications / Past Histories
Ancient and Wise,  Wrested from a Space Hulk (For misfortunes GM rolls twice and picks the worst), Cursed (Warp Nav Penalty), Ancient Grand Cruiser (Can't take +Armour Components).
 
Weapons
Hecutor Pattern Plasma Battery  [Strength: 3, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 11]  Location:PROW
Hecutor Pattern Plasma Battery  [Strength: 3, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 11]  Location:DORSAL
Sunsear Las-Broadside  [Strength: 6, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 9]  Location:PORT
Sunsear Las-Broadside  [Strength: 6, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 9]  Location:PORT
Sunsear Las-Broadside  [Strength: 6, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 9]  Location:STARBOARD
Sunsear Las-Broadside  [Strength: 6, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 9]  Location:STARBOARD

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#49 Erathia

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 05:24 PM

 

Man, it looks like all the fun weapons are rather useless without some house rules. 

 

 
Actually my raging endorsement of Mathhammer fixes is that it makes combat less deadly. Without it, one powerful macrocannon broadside (especially from your ship) will almost certainly flat-out kill most enemies. With it, it'll take two or three good broadsides, but that's enough to give people at least the illusion of fighting back.
 
I really like your current build, it's definitely a warship, but a not unbelievable one. On Grand Cruisers, both Prow and Dorsal weapons can fire in Front/Port/Starboard arcs, so maneuverability isn't that important because even with a 45 degree turn there's nowhere an enemy can position themselves that you wouldn't be able to turn and hit them unless they are at flat-out extreme range. It's a little useful, but you have the strength to take blows rather than worry about constantly maneuvering yourself perfectly.
 
I notice you have both an Emergency Field and a Warpsbane Hull. I think that you're only allowed one of each Essential Component type, so you shouldn't be able to take both. Assuming you keep the Warpsbane Hull (it's great!) then I would drop the Warpsbane Hull (+2 Power!), and then downgrade to a M-100 Augur Array (+2 Power!) and a M-1r Life Sustainer from the Vitae (+1 Power, +1 Space and they'll get used to the smell!) and then swap out one of your Hecutor Plasma Batteries for a Godsbane Lance Battery. They have great range, are a lance literally built for Grand Cruisers and allow you to remodel planets by removing pesky islands, mountain ranges or the entire planet given enough time.
 
Should you be allowed a piece of Archeotech (by rules, you are not without the Past History), then keep the Vitae and use a Star-Flare Lance instead

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#50 Tenebrae

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 06:04 PM

Other than that, the rest was left up to me. I myself was leaning towards an Orion to ambush and reave in the void, but alas, the rest of the crew wants plenty of ship combat. 

 

We've all agreed that we want a Conquistador campaign. Chart new worlds, plot new warp routes, establish colonies, exploit the natives, and blow up anyone we don't like.

So, to me that says Exploration and Military. Possibly Creed as well.

Now, most people here have been trying to build you warships, but is that what you want?

 

If you're using the endeavour system (which I really like), consider getting a few components to assist in you expected endeavours, Observation Dome, Trophy Room, maybe a Temple-Shrine and almost certainly a Barrack. These would help you make money ... I mean generate Profit Factor.

 

Sunsears and Hecutors are good, and if you group's focus will be heavily on ship combat, you should consider them seriously, but don't let them take up all of you space/energy. Or if they do, consider getting hold of a second ship, and equip it to generate riches. Blowing ships up can be fun, but leave you poor.

raiding worlds, colonizing them or turning them to the Light of the God-Emperor and extrating a back-log of tithes... surely this is all more profitable?

 

As for your basic hull, you can do far worse than the Repulsive.

Or you might consider a pair of Raiders (as mentioned above) or even an idea I've been toying with recently; namely 2 raiders and a transport. The raiders will be outfitted as cheap warships, while the raider will be build for profit.

And remember that you don't have to fill all available space/use all available energy right from the get-go.



#51 Erathia

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 06:10 PM

There's a few fun tricks you can do with a Raider/Transport mix. Grab two Iconoclast Destroyers from BFK, load their Dorsal spots with Grapple Cannons, and give them skilled pilots with Evasive Maneuvers, some stealth components and Defensive Countermeasures. Load your Transport with Barracks, Murder-Servitors and generally things that a warship would have. Send your Raiders in to Grapple the enemy, with all four Grapple Cannons firing one of them SHOULD hit, and have them keep on firing to keep the enemy vessel pinned. Once grappled they can do nothing but try to escape the Grapple, giving your transport time to close and start the full boarding action.

 

And that's how Granddad earned his first Cruiser kids.


Edited by Erathia, 04 December 2013 - 06:10 PM.

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#52 Marwynn

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 06:36 PM

Is there something I'm missing about the Godsbane? It's Range 12, but it's also 1d10+2 compared to the 1d10+5 of the Sunhammer at Range 9.

 

The Star-Flare Lance can fit with some minor adjustments... The easiest thing to do is remove the Hecutor completely and replace it with a Sunsear battery. Strength 3 and 2 DoS per hit is pretty sweet.

 

And thanks, I thought we could at least have multiple Gellar Fields. Or at least have the Emergency Gellar Field or perhaps a backup.... I am travelling in a Repulsive with a Miloslav warp engine that has Blasphemous Tendencies (now). Thought some backups would be nice, haha.


Edited by Marwynn, 04 December 2013 - 06:37 PM.

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#53 Erathia

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 08:41 PM

Redundancy means you don't have faith in the Omnissiah!

 

Isn't the Sunhammer 1d10 + 3? Also 3 range is actually 6 extra maximum firing range, and it is one of the most important factors. That and crit stacking.

 

My players have put the Star-Flare to great use. Get the shields down, use Stacking the Deck and a drugged out Arch-Militant and so long whatever is in front of you.


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#54 Chopper Greg

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 04:29 AM

There's a few fun tricks you can do with a Raider/Transport mix. Grab two Iconoclast Destroyers from BFK, load their Dorsal spots with Grapple Cannons, and give them skilled pilots with Evasive Maneuvers, some stealth components and Defensive Countermeasures.


Grapple Cannons? What book are they in?

#55 Tenebrae

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 04:37 AM

 

There's a few fun tricks you can do with a Raider/Transport mix. Grab two Iconoclast Destroyers from BFK, load their Dorsal spots with Grapple Cannons, and give them skilled pilots with Evasive Maneuvers, some stealth components and Defensive Countermeasures.


Grapple Cannons? What book are they in?

 

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#56 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 05:41 AM

Another idea to give some thought to...
Keep long ranged hecutors in Dorsal slot for bringing down enemy Void Shields.
Replace the Sunsears with lance batteries that should be shooting in savos after the hecutors strike. (so you ignore any armor the enemy might have)


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#57 Magellan

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 06:19 AM

Just a few closing comments about the general state of the rules: I'm generally against lances, since they tend to take a lot of space and power, and their ability to ignore armour (with one or two hits) generally doesn't mean anything if you salvo your macrobattery shots (since anything after the first 2-4 hits is going to ignore armour anyway), and I generally find crits of be of very little value, since a decent salvo will kill or cripple your target anyway.


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#58 Tenebrae

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 06:22 AM

Another idea to give some thought to...
Keep long ranged hecutors in Dorsal slot for bringing down enemy Void Shields.
Replace the Sunsears with lance batteries that should be shooting in savos after the hecutors strike. (so you ignore any armor the enemy might have)

By strict RAW and with competent gunners, this is an inferior choice.

This said, if you house rule in any way to make lances viable or your gunner isn't good enough to consistently get those 4+ DoS on his shooting rolls, then yes, this is a rather nice set-up, if horribly demanding in terms of power.



#59 Marwynn

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 10:40 AM

Thanks for all the feedback, fellas.

 

I've prepared a Lunar-class Cruiser as an alternative at 73 Ship Points. I have the sinking feeling that everyone chose Child of Dynasty, or that the bonus SP was in fact in error. In any case, my character will have CoD any way.

 

 

Consilium Beta

LUNAR Class Cruiser 
 
SPEED 6
MANOEUVRABILITY 10
DETECTION 8 
TURRET RATING     2
SHIELDS     Castellan Dual Void Shield
ARMOUR     21    
HULL INTEGRITY     70
 
SPACE AVAILABLE     75 POWER AVAILABLE:     75
SPACE Left Over      8 POWER UNUSED           8
 
Skill Test Modifiers
Ballistic Tests 10, Navigation/Warp 30, Navigation/Combat 5, Navigation/Escape Combat 5, Navigation/Piloting 5, Social 10, CMD/Hit&Run 20, CMD/Boarding Action 20, Manouvre/Stellar Phenomena 5, CMD/Hit&Run (Def) 20, CMD/Boarding Action (Def) 20, 
 
Achievement Bonuses
Achievement Bonuses: Trade + 125  Crime + 125  Military + 100  Explore + 100  
 
Essential Components
Jovian Pattern Class 4 Drive , Miloslav H-616.b Warp Engine (CL,C) , Warpsbane Hull, Ship Master's Bridge (C, CB, CG) , Clemency Pattern Life Sustainer (Reduce Crew/Morale Loss by 4 for Depressurization, Min. 0) , R-50 Auspex Multi-Band Auger Array , Voidsmans Quarters
 
Supplemental Components
Cargo Hold & Lighter Bay, Barracks, Trophy Room, Ostentatious Displays of Wealth (Common Quality), Storm Troopers [x2HI Dmg H&R Attacks; +1d5Dam to Crew in DEF Boarding Actions],
 
Complications / Past Histories
Blasphemous Tendencies,  Wrested from a Space Hulk (For misfortunes GM rolls twice and picks the worst)
Weapons
 
Sunsear Laser Battery  [Strength: 4, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 9]  Location:PROW
Sunsear Laser Battery  [Strength: 4, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 9]  Location:PORT
Sunsear Laser Battery  [Strength: 4, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 9]  Location:PORT
Sunsear Laser Battery  [Strength: 4, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 9]  Location:STARBOARD
Sunsear Laser Battery  [Strength: 4, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 9]  Location:STARBOARD

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#60 Marwynn

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:47 PM

So, had a quick meet with the group (mostly ate sushi) and we arrived at some conclusions:

 

1) 85 Points - Two of the characters will have CoD, my RT and the Void-Master/Seneschal (he's not sure yet). That accounts for 6 extra SP. The other 9 will be taken from our 20 PF and the other PFs generated by the characters.

 

 

2) I suggested some House Rules, we're all fairly new, but I illustrated just how powerful salvo'd macrobatteries could be. The GM was smiling in the corner, silently, as I showed just how quickly we could destroy stuff with average skills and average rolls.

 

They were fine with it... until I showed them that the same thing could happen to us. Not in one shot, but in sufficient numbers it could easily destroy our sexy Grand Cruiser.

 

So, we'll examine alternatives for it.

 

 

3) I also brought up the possibility of house ruling Nova Cannon. But these guys and gals all played BFG with me and remember how... "balanced" my fleets were with just two. We'll see.

 

 

4) Thanks everyone for contributing to this thread. Looking forward to actually playing in the New Year!


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