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What would you do with 85 SP and a Repulsive Grand Cruiser?


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#1 Marwynn

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:18 AM

Had a quick convo with my potential play group this weekend and they all went over their characters and we somehow arrived at 85 SP. I suppose other characters generate SP as well? 

 

We all agreed we wanted a Cruiser or something larger. It didn't feel right to "upgrade" to a better ship for us, and it looks like a fairly militant bunch. 

 

We have one Arch-Militant/Chaplain that's paying for the Barracks to transport his faithful soldiers. The Navigator wants an Observation Dome, though it's unclear if that character chipped in any SP... 

 

Other than that, the rest was left up to me. I myself was leaning towards an Orion to ambush and reave in the void, but alas, the rest of the crew wants plenty of ship combat. 

 

We've all agreed that we want a Conquistador campaign. Chart new worlds, plot new warp routes, establish colonies, exploit the natives, and blow up anyone we don't like.

 

So... the Repulsive! 85 Ship Points! It'll take 6 SP just to give this thing 6 macrobatteries. Suggestions would be welcome. 

 

 

EDIT: Also, Warrant includes 1 Archeotech component that has to be paid for in SP. Plus those from any background stuff.


Edited by Marwynn, 02 December 2013 - 09:25 AM.

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#2 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 10:47 AM

This is a 85SP Grand Cruiser ship (it's an avenger though) I built for a game my char was the RT in. We traded extra 10SP for Profit in exchange for an extra "Finance in Arrears" trait (the RT had just won the warrant due to a controversial manouver involving Chaos vs Dark Eldar when he was a rear admiral in Battlefleet Calixis - he was to be given rights to Chartist Trading Ships in the Malfian sub-secter for 10 years until he was able to build a Dinasty to sustain his own ship).

In ranged combat it can take out easily anything short of another Grand Cruiser. (MASSIVE ranged/vapourization broadsides)

If I had extra SP, I would have added Excess Void Armor, Barracks/Clan Kin Quarters/Murder Servitors and Overload Shield Capacitors to make it truly Immortal.

I will post a build for a Repulsive later.

Immortal Fury

Ship hull
Avenger

Essentials
Saturine-Pattern Class 5 Drive
Miloslav H-616.b Warp Engine
Gellar Field
Triple Castellan Shield Array
Clemency-Pattern Life Sustainer
Voidsman Quarters
Ship Master's Bridge
X-470 Ultimo Array

Supplementals
Armored Prow*
Augmented Retro-Thrusters
Auxiliary Plasma Banks


Weapons (all poor craftsmanship are due to damage taken in the past)
Common craftsmanship Hecutor-Pattern Plasma Broadside
Poor craftsmanship Hecutor-Pattern Plasma Broadside
Poor craftsmanship Hecutor-Pattern Plasma Broadside

Common craftsmanship Hecutor-Pattern Plasma Broadside
Poor craftsmanship Hecutor-Pattern Plasma Broadside
Poor craftsmanship Hecutor-Pattern Plasma Broadside

Edited by Sebastian Yorke, 02 December 2013 - 10:50 AM.

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#3 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:52 AM

There it goes. I got extra 5SP for downgrading the crew. (you can change the Godsbanes and downgrade the cargo hold if you need to go back to 15SP) A ship that will let you trade, invade and maul any other ship with hordes of Bombers (you don't need many interceptors due to the awesome Turret Rating of GCs) and if that's not enough, cut other ships in half with the 2 long range lance batteries.

 

Aquilla's Claws

Repulsive class GC

Essentials
Saturine-Pattern Class 5 Drive
Miloslav H-616.b Warp Engine
Belecane-Pattern 90.r Gellar Field
Triple Castellan Shield Array
Clemency-Pattern Life Sustainer
Voidsman Quarters
Flight Command Bridge
X-470 Ultimo Array

Supplementals
Pilot's Chamber*
Small Craft Repair Dock*
Cargo Hold and Lighter Bay
Poor* Barracks

Weaps
Jovian-Pattern Landing Bay
Jovian-Pattern Landing Bay
Jovian-Pattern Landing Bay
Jovian-Pattern Landing Bay
Godsbane Lance Battery
Godsbane Lance Battery

 

 

Ps.: LIFE IS TOO SHORT FOR NOT USING A BELECANE IN A CURSED GC. YOLO.


Edited by Sebastian Yorke, 02 December 2013 - 12:08 PM.

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#4 Marwynn

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 12:05 PM

There it goes. I got extra 5SP for downgrading the crew. (you can change the Godsbanes and downgrade the cargo hold if you need to go back to 15SP)

A ship that will let you trade, invade and maul any other ship with hordes of Bombers (you don't need many interceptors due to the awesome Turret Rating of GCs) and if that's not enough, cut other ships in half with the 2 long range lance batteries.

 

Thanks, though I'm not seeing a ship... Or am I going blind?

Also, how did you handle the 4d5 -Morale hit? 


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#5 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 12:11 PM

Sorry, I actually missed the ship. There it is now.

Morale can be recovered fast - those negatives are Temporary Morale, not Max Permanent. The GM however made my ship mutiny while I wasn't onboard during the first gaming session. Turning the first games in the campaign in an endeavor to actually get the ship back.


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#6 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 12:29 PM

Scan the enemy ship with the Ultimo Arrays. Crit the voidshields with the bombers. Cut the ship in 2 with the Lance batteries.
Your nav will like the Belecane, they are built for getting Navigator a more clearer perception of the warp around the ship.

Edited by Sebastian Yorke, 02 December 2013 - 12:29 PM.

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#7 Marwynn

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 12:55 PM

I was wondering about those Godsbanes... Was not expecting a Repulsive Carrier though. Interesting!

 

I suppose the Upkeep will be a pain, and securing a source of attack craft is going to be the first priority. But I like it! 


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#8 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 01:53 PM

The repair bays combined with all of the bonus related to Attack Craft Rating will give you an edge so you don't lose many. I recommend you don't use the small craft against Rak Gol ships though, neither against anything with TR 2 or 3 at the beginning at least. Torpedo Bombers with escorts are fine though (in which case you need a Munitorium and to replace one of the Godsbane for Tubes).
If if anyone in your group wants to go Void Master with Small Craft Mastery - preferably someone who watched Battlestar Galactica. hahaha

Each of the main Squad Leaders in my game have a distinct personality and an actual character sheet. The Pilots/Gunnery/Voidsmen from the small craft related areas keep this large pub area in the Pilot Chambers component were they can usually be interacted with when they are not on stand-by for combat (warp travel, traveling in civilized systems).

For example.

Red squadron (Fury)
Fireball
Large redhead man, prone to drinking and laughing out loud. Mid-50s.
Retired (or expelled) Imperial Navy Fury pilot.
BS40, Piloting55.

Gold squadron (Starhawk)
Tequila
Large latina, Fireball's wife.
Retired Imperial Navy pilot.

Blue squadron (Fury)
LongLas
Tall and thin Mid 30s, pointy nosed guy. Quiet and calm, will spend time away from others.
Past unclear, was an Aquila Lander pilot in the EC. Will spend long periods of time in the shooting range.
BS70, Piloting50.

Silver squadron (Starhawk)
Snowball
Fat dude, easy smile, "some smartass gave me that call sign".

Green squadron (Fury)
Cat
Short, thin, mid 20's. Brunette, pale. Voidborn.
Always making fun of Fireball, awesome at playing cards.
Carouse 60, Pilot 50, BS 40.

Black squadron (Torpedo Bombers)
Swan
Tall black woman, has the aquilla tattooed around her neck. Hair cut short.
Spends most time in the god emperor's shrine.

Edited by Sebastian Yorke, 02 December 2013 - 02:03 PM.

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#9 Tenebrae

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 04:15 PM


We have one Arch-Militant/Chaplain that's paying for the Barracks to transport his faithful soldiers. The Navigator wants an Observation Dome, though it's unclear if that character chipped in any SP... 

 

Just a note, and I might be wrong. As I recall, every character comes with a free "+0" aquisition.

I might be wrong, but I think that's enough to buy a 1 SP supplemental component which isn't a weapon or otherwise penalised.

This should let the navigator have the observation dome, should (s)he so choose.


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#10 Magellan

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 05:04 PM

Hmm... 70 ship points is the usual maximum. It'd take 5 characters with the Child of Dynasty starting package to get another 15, but it's certainly doable.

 

A Repulsive costs 69 points, leaving 16. Assuming you're using the actual rules as opposed to someone's homebrew, anything other than macrobatteries is suboptimal, so the most cynical (and effective) build would be to downgrade your crew rating for another 5 points, and stick the heaviest Best-Quality Sunsear lasers available in all slots (adding one to range and one to strength, of course). That's 3SP per weapon times six, for a total of 18, leaving you with three ship points. Best-Quality War components are ridiculously hard to get a hold of later in the game (a -80 modifier for the sunsears, I believe), so it's pretty much now or never if you wanna be the most dangerous thing in space. After that, your best bet is probably a Poor Quality Tenebro-Maze, Poor Quality Munitorium and Poor Quality Barracks - you should have the space to spare.

 

If you get the rest of your crew to use their free acquisitions for extra frill-components to allocate critical hits to (technically impossible, since the rule specifies one *item*, but not every group enforces that)

 

If you do this, you will most likely have the most powerful warship in the entire Expanse from the start of the game. Maximum of 24 hits to the port or starboard side, though I imagine somewhere between 16-20 will be more realistic. Average of 136-170 damage before void shields and armour (100-130 or something like that after two void shields and armour), at ranges up to 20VU. In short, with a competent gunner (Personally, I've come to expect 70 BS +30 at the very least, but I assumed much less when estimating hits/round) you will one-shot everything you encounter regardless of defences. Note that this still leaves you with two broadsides available to fire on anything that happens to be on the other side of your ship.

 

I realize I didn't take into account your archeotech component, but it's really just a matter of swapping an equivalent amount of non-macrobatteries for the SP you need. Again assuming maximum cynicism, you'll want a teleportarium for the unique effect, or an energistic conversion matrix for the extra speed, negating the one advantage other ships might have over your super-gunship. I did not actually keep track of the power usage for all of this, however, so I don't know if the matrix is viable at all.

 

I'm not saying this is what you *should* do, mind you, but now you've got an idea of about how powerful voidships can get.


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#11 Marwynn

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 05:51 PM

That's... actually pretty frightening. Yes, we're using RAW for now, best to get our feet wet before we start house ruling.

 

Here's what I whipped up, modified by Sebastian's suggestion above. Now, I'm thinking about those Sunsears...

 

(As for the Poor Components, imagine they're on the other add ons instead of the Essential Components. The Excel sheet doesn't really let you add those to Supplementals.)

 

 

REPULSE Class Grand Cruiser

SPEED 6
MANOEUVRABILITY 8
DETECTION 15
TURRET RATING     3
SHIELDS     Triple Void Shield
ARMOUR     20    
HULL INTEGRITY     85


Skill Test Modifiers
Ballistic Tests 15, Navigation/Warp 5, Navigation/Combat 5, Navigation/Escape Combat -10, Navigation/Piloting 5, CMD/Hit&Run 20, CMD/Boarding Action 20, CMD/Hit&Run (Def) 20, CMD/Boarding Action (Def) 20, Attack Craft Rating +2

Achievement Bonuses
Achievement Bonuses: Trade + 200  Crime + 200  Creed + 100  Military + 100  Explore + 100  

Essential Components                        
Saturnine Pattern, Class 5 Drive (Grand Cruiser) , Miloslav H-616.b Warp Engine (CL,C) [C:POOR], Warpsbane Hull, Emergency Field (Roll 1d10, on 3+ Geller Field Activates if vessel is drawn into the Warp), Ship Master's Bridge (C, CB, CG) [C:POOR], Vitae Pattern Life Sustainer , M-201b Auger Array , Voidsmans Quarters [C:POOR]                        

Supplemental Components                        
Cargo Hold & Lighter Bay, Luxury Passenger Quarters, Barracks, Trophy Room, Observation Dome, Pilot's Chamber, Small Craft Repair Deck,                         

Complications / Past Histories                        
Martial Hubris,  Wrested from a Space Hulk (For misfortunes GM rolls twice and picks the worst), Cursed (Warp Nav Penalty), Ancient Grand Cruiser (Can't take +Armour Components).                        
                        
Weapons                        
Sunhammer Lance Battery  [Strength: 2, Damage:1d10+5, Crit Rating: 3, Range: 9]  Location:PROW                        
Sunsear Laser Battery  [Strength: 4, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 9]  Location:DORSAL                        
Sunsear Laser Battery  [Strength: 4, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 9]  Location:PORT                        
Jovian Pattern Landing Bay  [Strength: 2, Damage:x+x, Crit Rating: --, Range: ]  Location:PORT                        
Sunsear Laser Battery  [Strength: 4, Damage:1d10+2, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 9]  Location:STARBOARD                        
Jovian Pattern Landing Bay  [Strength: 2, Damage:x+x, Crit Rating: --, Range: ]  Location:STARBOARD                        
 

 

So, being the RT and being given the choice of the ship's origin, I went with Martial Hubris and Wrested from a Space Hulk. The backstory is that, yes my character's a Child of Dynasty, but was a distant relation. He had already retired from his service in the Imperial Navy and was making his own way when the Dynasty was "outplayed".

 

Securing the Warrant of Trade will be our first step, really.  The "Repulse"-class (which in my head-canon is what the Repulsive-class was called before they went traitor) Grand Cruiser was something my character was helping the dynasty recover.

 

We may not actually get to the Grand Cruiser until a few play sessions in. Then people want to go out and shoot some Eldar in the face for money or something.

 

I don't know what the other characters will be, or their backgrounds. It'd be a bit odd if we were all Children of Dynasty, but I guess it could work.

 

And I didn't factor my own +3 SP! Forgot about that.

 

I have 19 Power and 2 Space left over. I think I may go back and get Common quality for 3 of those Poor components instead, buy back some space.


 


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#12 Magellan

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 06:37 PM

Are you sure about Pilot's Chambers? It's an entire component just for a +2 to piloting/command checks, which is just beyond terrible.

 

And your small craft *will* get shot up. Keep in mind that a single Fury Fighter is a -40 acquisition. Getting entire squadrons of attack craft isn't going to be possible until you more than double your starting profit factor.


Edited by Magellan, 02 December 2013 - 06:39 PM.

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#13 Marwynn

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 06:50 PM

Yeah, we discussed that a bit. Initially, I wanted a Dictator-class Cruiser but the group wanted something larger. I'll propose both a "shooter" and a "carrier" variant. As for the Pilots Chambers, not too sure. I figure if we're going to invest that much into getting them, we might as well get the most out of them.

 

One of our priorities will be to secure logistical support somehow. So, depending on the GM's whims, we may have to engage in an endeavour just to secure a steady supply of replacement craft.

 

I'm willing to simply go ahead with nothing but guns, but I'll let the group decide.


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#14 Magellan

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 07:39 PM

Personally, I would never handwave up an inexhaustible supply of anything as powerful as small craft, but you know your GM best.

 

A Fury is a flying vehicle with the armour of a Leman Russ, twice the speed of sound, and weapons with three times the range and power of the most powerful personal weapons in existence. On top of that, It's also spaceworthy and a VTOL. A single one will render virtually any encounter in the open moot, and with its twin full-auto lascannons with hundreds of shots, any encounter that's not in the open can be *made* open.

 

Of course, putting someone with a piloting skill of 30 (your basic pilot) in one is just asking to have them crash and burn the first time they roll to fly the things, so you'll probably never be able to launch an army of them outside of voidship combat. It's still a ridiculous amount of resources to be handed out for free, and not something I'd expect of most GMs.


Edited by Magellan, 02 December 2013 - 07:42 PM.

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#15 Marwynn

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 07:45 PM

Oh, I doubt it'll be "free". Just hearing about how difficult it is to acquire, and considering he has played this before, leads me to believe we'll pay for those attack craft in other ways.

 

Which is why I'm a bit in favour of macrobatteries and lances for now. I don't want to give him too much rope to hang us with.


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#16 Magellan

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 07:55 PM

Oh, wait.  A single Fury is actually just a -10 acquisition. After all, you're only buying *one* military spaceworthy, bunker-busting, heavily armoured VTOL. ;P

 

But I stand by the fact that buying them in any serious quantity is difficult. Never hurts to have one or two around, though, even on a gunship.


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#17 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:52 PM

Starhawks + Munitorium = Torpedo Bombers.

Torpedo Bombers don't have to go into the enemy ships turrets' range. Each squad shoots 3 Torps and then need to reload.

You wouldnt be loosing bombers this way (also be sure to leave LARGE complement of Fury fights near each torp squad so enemy craft wont even try to get close) - but replenishing the torps would still be an issue.


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#18 Magellan

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:31 PM

Starhawks + Munitorium = Torpedo Bombers.

Torpedo Bombers don't have to go into the enemy ships turrets' range. Each squad shoots 3 Torps and then need to reload.

You wouldnt be loosing bombers this way (also be sure to leave LARGE complement of Fury fights near each torp squad so enemy craft wont even try to get close) - but replenishing the torps would still be an issue.

Okay, I would like to counter this with three pertinent points:

1. Torpedoes suck

2. Torpedoes are terrible

3. Torpedoes are not very good

 

Seriously, though, three-torpedo salvos are too easy to shoot down. That, coupled with the general ineffectiveness (and cost) of torpedoes (virus torpedoes and vortex warheads are good, but the rest...), short range (and cost) of bombers - especially if the enemies have small craft of their own, which will simply shoot down the torpedoes and then proceed to your ship (especially since NPC small craft are replenished at the speed of plot) - as well as the fact that you can only store nine measly torpedoes in a munitorium, makes torpedo bombers utterly unthinkable. To me, at least.

 

Heck, basic plasma torpedoes will do, what, 5-7 damage each to your average enemy ship. A heavily armoured cruiser will completely soak average plasma damage, and all these warheads are way too expensive for the quantities you need to do any damage. I can see them coming in handy if you have a few of the strongest torpedo tubes and the profit factor to carry hundreds of virus torpedoes, but other than that, I've yet to see any effective uses of torpedoes outside of homebrewed xeno versions made specifically to provide a different kind of challenge.

 

If you know something I don't know about torpedoes, though, feel free to correct me. I've only used them a couple of times.


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#19 Wincent

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 12:23 AM

So you'll get a massive carrier or a shooter coupled with small PF. Maybe swap two broadsides for a disruption cannons to gain some scavege oportunities. If you don't have PF go for barter:)



#20 Marwynn

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:44 AM

Huh, so Torpedoes check damage per torp even though the max number that can hit is limited by the Degree of Success?

That seems rather excessive. On average, a Plasma Torpedo will do 24 points of damage. That's nothing to the more heavily armoured ships out there, especially considering what those macrobatteries can do. Does the added range really make it worth it?

And I still have to acquire those things... 

 

I think I'm gonna vote for a "shooter". I don't suppose there have been any hulls or launcher bays you can put in a prow/dorsal slot? 


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