Jump to content



Photo

Perfection


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 Calgor Grim

Calgor Grim

    Member

  • Members
  • 425 posts

Posted 29 November 2013 - 03:18 PM

Question:

My BC human currently in the works has a set of goals. His primary motives are to amass wealth and to achieve a lasting infamy as a character of peerless stealth, deception and subterfuge. One of said goals involves the ability to hide from sight. If ones enemies cannot see you then how can they kill you?

 

So the first question is, what methods are there in the 40k and BC universe are there that can render the wearer/user invisible to as many forms of detection as humanly possible? This is referring to things like sight, smell, machine, Psyker, warp entity, the works. In order to become a paramount man of infiltration, nothing must be able to sense the man who strides through shadow.

 

 

From a quick bit of searching there are things I know of like Camo cloaks which make it harder to see you or mean you count as a bit further away when being searched for.

 

I also know that Vindicare Stealth suits are even better which reduce even machine based (though the likelihood of acquisition is low).

 

I think I recall reading from either DH Radicals Handbook (or it might have been Inquisitors) of some sort of Psy nuller as well which blocks the user from warp powers, presumably making them act as an untouchable?

 

Anything else we can think of? Now let's be clear I need something which a human can use (not Chaos Marine) and I am not a psychic character and not wanting to go as Untouchable. I simply need to know a list of what lore items one could possibly look for and then consider with my GM when the time comes, fully armed with a list.


Edited by Calgor Grim, 29 November 2013 - 03:19 PM.

Loyal Missionary Father Grim of the Kingston 293rd Storm Troopers


#2 BrotharTearer

BrotharTearer

    Member

  • Members
  • 489 posts

Posted 30 November 2013 - 04:34 PM

Synskin, being a non-psyker and rediculous TN when using the Stealth skill. Preferably some UNA too.

 

If they can't make the opposed Awareness test they won't see you, not even if there's nowhere to hide in the little room you're in at the moment, by RAW (silly but true).



#3 bogi_khaosa

bogi_khaosa

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,064 posts

Posted 30 November 2013 - 07:08 PM

TN? UNA?

 

In other games stuff like Kroot and Lictors have a special ability that allows them to make Concealment rolls _even when being observed_, which implies (with allowance for these being other games) that you can't actually normally do that when somebody is looking straight at you.



#4 Oden

Oden

    Member

  • Members
  • 13 posts

Posted 01 December 2013 - 08:59 AM

And if you DO get seen, Smoke Grenades are your friend (+10 to new Concealment Tests), or if you have the Infamy perhaps a Blacklight Projector (Into the Storm p.139). 



#5 Calgor Grim

Calgor Grim

    Member

  • Members
  • 425 posts

Posted 01 December 2013 - 01:57 PM

UNA - Unnatural Agility I would imagine.

 

Synskins are in RT rulebook if I recall? Hmm, invisible to infrared and darksight. So that negates much of the machine based elements and the enhanced optics of marine power armour (both of my enemy and my ally traitor marines ;) ) Meanwhile it aint just Kroot and Lictors which can hide in plain sight. Looking at Ascension, Vindicare suits allow the wearer the ability to try and hide while being watched. And actually looking at it...they are gene coded but we do have a potentially good Heretek.

Blacklight projectors, not come across those and cant find anything about those (stupid google coming up with the actual real world item). Are they under another name?


Loyal Missionary Father Grim of the Kingston 293rd Storm Troopers


#6 Oden

Oden

    Member

  • Members
  • 13 posts

Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:39 AM

Blacklight projectors are found in Dark Heresy, Into the storm book. Description is below, but some of the text is cut out since i don't know how stringent FFG is on citation.

" Testing displayed their most obvious value, when one end was depressed, the other would emit a beam of purest midnight, deep enough to cloak any visible light and submerge anyone within the area in an instant nightfall. That it only blankets the wavelengths humans associate with vision is a troubling matter for of the Ordo Xenos. Anyone under the area effect of a Blacklight suffers -40 to all Perception based tests involving vision. "

Of course now when i read the text there is no mention on how big this area of effect is, so better come up with something yourself.

Edited by Oden, 02 December 2013 - 11:39 AM.


#7 Magnus Grendel

Magnus Grendel

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,255 posts

Posted 04 December 2013 - 07:13 AM

Dark Heresy xenos implants (forget the exact name) - allow you to gain traits from a xenos species. Pirating a lictor's chameleonic skin would be nice.

 

Biomancy/flesh shaping ability. Disguise more than stealth but it all counts in the right circumstances.

 

Blur suits are imperial knock-off holosuits. Of course, real holosuits are available, you just have to...persuade...the harlequins to hand them over.

 

The Radical's handbook included things such as preysense mask (cooled armour to avoid thermo-sights)



#8 Calgor Grim

Calgor Grim

    Member

  • Members
  • 425 posts

Posted 04 December 2013 - 04:40 PM

Hmm, these are interesting things I can work with actually. I am of course trying to avoid rituals and too much chaotic bargaining to get this, as the character is more renegade than chaos bent.

 

So far then a Camo Cloak seems a strong idea for it's Stealth+20,

A couple of Smoke grenades for the +10 on use.

Preysense or Photovisors to see while I'm invisible.

 

I dont think I can use synskin on top of normal armour though which is one little snag on that.

 

I could probably make safe use of that...as I dont think the GM will allow access to stolen Xenos tech based on the initial settings.


Loyal Missionary Father Grim of the Kingston 293rd Storm Troopers


#9 Zenoth16

Zenoth16

    Member

  • Members
  • 95 posts

Posted 05 December 2013 - 07:25 AM

I dont think I can use synskin on top of normal armour though which is one little snag on that.

 

If you read its discription I think you can and still get its benefits. I know that there is one item that says that it is intended to be worn under armor and hide your body heat.



#10 Oden

Oden

    Member

  • Members
  • 13 posts

Posted 05 December 2013 - 04:42 PM

Also i don't remember witch book, but clothes can be coated with temporary flak spray (giving ap whilst in civilian gear), whilst armour can be coated with cameleon spray giving the same effect of a cameleon cloak without the cloak if needed.



#11 BrotharTearer

BrotharTearer

    Member

  • Members
  • 489 posts

Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:43 PM

 

I dont think I can use synskin on top of normal armour though which is one little snag on that.

 

If you read its discription I think you can and still get its benefits. I know that there is one item that says that it is intended to be worn under armor and hide your body heat.

 

 

Check the item's writeup in Rogue Trader and you'll understand that power armour negates most of the benefits you get from the synskin. The BC version is just lacking in clarity.



#12 Annaamarth

Annaamarth

    Member

  • Members
  • 410 posts

Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:13 PM

Get high-quality Light Powered Armour.  Arranged with the GM for it to be of unique manufacture, such that it is effectively silent.  Arrange for it to be sealed for high/low pressure environments.  Arrange for it to possess thermal damping and heat sinks.

 

Camoleoline coating can be acquired as an armour mod, I believe.  Get it.

 

Hexagrammatic wards (daemonhunter's or radical's from Dark Heresy, I think).  Include them.  Arrange for them to also mask psychic presence as long as the armour is properly sealed.  Alternatively, acquire a set of Obsidian armour from Black Crusade core and arrange for it to be included into the Light Power Armour you are having made- bear in mind that such armour was built into Horus' terminator plate ten thousand years ago, so we know it's possible- you just need an in with a Dark Forge World.

 

Acquiring such armour would be an adventure in itself, but it should apply the +20 stealth bonus that a camoleoline cloak provides, be masked to thermal sight, psychic detection, and contains your scent.  At the same time it should provide an armour value of seven or eight in all locations and grant some of the bonuses which come with LPA as a matter of course.

 

Endgame armour, right there.


RIP AND TEAR THROUGH THE TIDE OF BLOOD WITH BATTLESUIT PILOT. SUPLEX HIVE TYRANTS. DO WHATEVER, YOU'RE PILOTING A HUGE-ASS MECHA.

 -Errant, on how Rogue Trader ought to be played


#13 Annaamarth

Annaamarth

    Member

  • Members
  • 410 posts

Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:31 PM

Oh right: next step.

 

When you (inevitably) fall to Chaos, have the armour turned into a Daemon engine.  Have a daemon bound into it, but rather than being free willed (as is the case for most daemon engines), bind it more like a weapon.  Either bind a Slaaneshi daemon to get the Swiftness attribute, such that the armour now provides Unnatural Agility, or bind a Tzeentchian daemon to get a variant on the Illusory attribute- which would in this case make you Unremarkable, psychically.  You would therefore be able to disappear as easily into a crowd as into a smoke grenade, and the daemonic/psychic signature could still be concealed by the nature of the Obsidian armour you included.

 

Cheers.


RIP AND TEAR THROUGH THE TIDE OF BLOOD WITH BATTLESUIT PILOT. SUPLEX HIVE TYRANTS. DO WHATEVER, YOU'RE PILOTING A HUGE-ASS MECHA.

 -Errant, on how Rogue Trader ought to be played


#14 Calgor Grim

Calgor Grim

    Member

  • Members
  • 425 posts

Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:35 AM

Ouch...just ouch.

 

Slight flaw though surely? You said to add Hexagrammic wards to the armour. Dont they generate an anti-psyker and to some extent, also an anti-daemon effect? Surely adding such thing would mean I cannot then bind a daemon into said armour.


Edited by Calgor Grim, 10 December 2013 - 07:40 AM.

Loyal Missionary Father Grim of the Kingston 293rd Storm Troopers


#15 bogi_khaosa

bogi_khaosa

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,064 posts

Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:50 PM

This is all dependent on "arranging things with the GM," and I as a GM would say "hell no on your custom light power armour that doesn't exist in any books that you just made up and your rule on making armour into a daemon engine that you also just made up and makes no sense because it has no independent motion system to begin with." :)



#16 Annaamarth

Annaamarth

    Member

  • Members
  • 410 posts

Posted 10 December 2013 - 11:58 PM

Grim: Yeah, there are some flaws there, but it's up to you to reason them out and rationalize them.  Yes, hexagrammatic wards do ward away the warp- that's the point.  Query: what do you think the 'binding' part of a daemonic binding is?  I'll give you a hint- it's not nice and cozy for the daemon in question, and I figure most binding rituals use hexagrammatic- or other thaumaturgical- circles for the purpose.

 

Bogi: My opinion is that all power armour, light or otherwise is custom, to some degree or another.  I'd say that silent LPA (Or at least LPA no more noisy than a well oiled and fitted suit of plate armour) would be worth a unique+best craftsmanship acquisition.  That's just opinion though, so let me hit you with precedent instead.

 

Making armour into a daemon engine/weapon I did make up... kind of.  I'd like to direct your attention to the 'rune shield,' Tome of Blood page 39, which outright states that protective items can have daemons bound into them- there just aren't rules for it.  I'd also like to direct your attention to the entirety of the non-sorcerer contingent of the Thousand Sons... an army of what?  Possessed suits of powered armour.

 

I'd also like to direct your attention to the fact that powered armour is self-motivated.  Look at the penalties inherent to using PA after losing access to the power source.  It may not have 'independent motive systems,' but neither does a bicycle (it's still largely foot powered), but I would have no problem with a bicycle daemon engine... aside from the ridiculousness of it.

 

I'm not suggesting that you, as a GM, would allow it without making the player jump through oodles of hoops, but I am saying that there is precedent for every portion I recommended... and that some GMs might allow it.  I certainly would allow you to pursue it... and you might even get it if you have infamy of 80+.  Lower if you tried really hard, and then I'd offer you the chance to make it your 'legacy weapon,' since this LPA is so tied up with the story of your character.

 

Rule of Cool, Bogi.  Rule of Cool.


Edited by Annaamarth, 10 December 2013 - 11:58 PM.

RIP AND TEAR THROUGH THE TIDE OF BLOOD WITH BATTLESUIT PILOT. SUPLEX HIVE TYRANTS. DO WHATEVER, YOU'RE PILOTING A HUGE-ASS MECHA.

 -Errant, on how Rogue Trader ought to be played


#17 Calgor Grim

Calgor Grim

    Member

  • Members
  • 425 posts

Posted 17 December 2013 - 06:59 AM

Hmm, well thats the first goal then, stealthy as can be.

 

Second part of the trail of perfection is the ability to master the art of infiltration and sabotage, make no lock impossible to break through. No area off limits.

 

First thing I would imagine is useful is a Multi-key which is +20 to security checks on Imperial Locks, or Demo Charges for when it all goes wrong or forgery kits to try and fake IDs or keycards. Anything else? Additionally while unlocking doors is good, if I can pass through them that would be even better, as a locked door can still be noticed. I know there is a gift of the Gods I can use to make myself Incorporeal for a moment so I can pass through said wall/door.


Loyal Missionary Father Grim of the Kingston 293rd Storm Troopers


#18 Annaamarth

Annaamarth

    Member

  • Members
  • 410 posts

Posted 18 December 2013 - 06:14 AM

Besides the gift of the gods and sorcerous bullpucky, I got nothing directly relevant to phasing.  It sounds as though you may not be sufficiently aligned with Chaos to go with rituals to empower yourself with things like turning to mist or becoming a shadow, but those might be options- again, if you can clear them with the GM and get a sorcerer in your pocket.  Other than that, the multikey and a high security skill are important, as well as tech-use.

 

I can not overstate the importance of tech-use.  Whether you want to perform subtle and artful sabotage or wide-scale demolitions to bring a Hive crashing down, tech-use is the go-to skill.  Viral scrapcode?  Tech-use.  Hotwiring a guncutter?  Tech-use.

 

To that end, a good quality MIU coupled with a lesser-minion Servo Skull with training in Security, tech-use and Awareness can help a great deal.  The MIU lets you socket with anything MIU capable, and high quality hives may well have MIU compatible doors.  The servo skull can assist your roll in any event (whether security or tech-use), granting an extra +10 to the roll as well as a bonus DoS.  Give it the Unremarkable and Mimic talents and it then makes a serviceable scout.

 

Speaking of, unremarkable coupled with the deceive skill can also help.  I believe Deceive governs disguise, and a good disguise kit (while not written up in the book) should provide a bonus to disguise equivalent to the stealth bonus from a camo-cloak.  Certain psychic powers can help too, if you have the fellowship/infamy for better minions- those able to get a few DoS when dropping psychic powers on a person with signs of chaos inscribed into them.   The warptime Unnatural Agility bonus gets you moving faster as well as providing bonus DoS on stealth, and there are telepathy powers to make people very happy not seeing the ninja walking past them so they will continue being happy not noticing what ninja?


RIP AND TEAR THROUGH THE TIDE OF BLOOD WITH BATTLESUIT PILOT. SUPLEX HIVE TYRANTS. DO WHATEVER, YOU'RE PILOTING A HUGE-ASS MECHA.

 -Errant, on how Rogue Trader ought to be played


#19 Oden

Oden

    Member

  • Members
  • 13 posts

Posted 18 December 2013 - 06:36 AM

Can't believe i forgot to mention the always trusty Stummer, cancelling out any noise the user makes. +30 Stealth Bonus. Especially if you have power armour and can tech-use it to run from the armours core, eliminating the limited duration issue.

 

From other books there is a lot of fun stuff.

 

For breaching anything I can recommend Melta-Gel from the Hostile Acquisitions Rogue Trader book. Burns through anything like a meltabomb, but takes a minute to do so and no big booms to alert anyone. Easier to carry too since you get it in tubes.

 

Also the same book have Nightshroud Layer for any non powered armour, making thermal sensors useless against the user and a few other neat bonuses.

 

Another nifty tool is the Eldar Grav-Platform, Decently portable and gives you a silent way to fly around and reach places where grapple hooks can't reach and jump packs are too loud. Still from Hostile acquisitions

 

For more infiltration the Cybernetic Twitch-Mask gives your heretic the ability to rearrange his face, in game terms giving +10 to Disguise tests for normal ones or +20 for good quality. same book.

 

From Dark Heresy Radical's Handbook you get the always popular Intrusion Spirit, a small one time use dataslate that gives +30 to any Security or Tech-Use test to breach an entrance or security system, as long as there is a dataport available.

 

Have fun getting to where you really should not be.

 

Edit: Bah, got stuck reading the Radicals handbook and just keep finding useful stuff.

 

Spider Pads: Gloves, Vambraces and greaves. stuck securely to clothing or armour. +30 to climbing tests on normal flat surfaces such as rockrete or ouslite, lowered to +10 on slick surfaces such as scree or talus.

 

Pict-Fly: Small pictrecorder resembling a dragonfly. Have limited intelligence to follow simple orders. Great for when even you cannot gain entrance.

 

Vox-Bug: Like the Pict-Fly but for sound. Likes to hide in hair or clothing.


Edited by Oden, 18 December 2013 - 06:55 AM.


#20 Calgor Grim

Calgor Grim

    Member

  • Members
  • 425 posts

Posted 18 December 2013 - 06:58 AM

Well, this is only a first rank character and I'm shopping for ideas. Alignment looks to end up more towards Slaanesh as I have a load of Fellowship based abilities to go for so I may end up going down their route. I basically am more renegade but I dont mind what chaos powers I embrace to achieve my desired result. The ignorance of man thinking that he controls his own paths and destiny and that he thinks he is manipulating them! ;)
 
An MIU and servo skull is inspired. I do have a heretek ally that might be willing to fit one. Might have to convince him...
 
Psychic powers though are likely to be out unless I end up aligned to Tzeentch and pick up the Psyker trait as a result. I dont know if I will end up with that though due to the multiple planned Fellowship upgrades but we'll see.
 
RE the extra stealthy kit, the nightshroud layer sounds intriguing. Will take a look for a copy of that book. This shopping list is becoming dangerously lengthy and expensive. Will have fun discussing this one with my GM of my intended plans. Trying to see what will avoid me being struck down in the first eight minutes.

Loyal Missionary Father Grim of the Kingston 293rd Storm Troopers





© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS