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Question about pedlar


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#1 darthmax

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:24 PM

When you draw the peel at but don't buy anything, do you still roll to move him clockwise around the board

#2 DomaGB

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:02 PM

I would say no, because of the word "then" with the words "You may buy". The assumption made but not clearly stated is an "if and then" statement like programing a computer.

 

It also heavily translates into the theme of the card.

 

That's how we play it. And that's my 2 cents.

 

 

 


RoboRally, then Talisman. That's the way it is... ;)


#3 darthmax

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 12:52 AM

Is there an official ruling on this? My opponent says the word THEN infers that you must move him no matter what

#4 The_Warlock

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 06:59 PM

If a card is encountered and gets moved after you have to do something, it moves also when you don't do anything. I can't see why an official rule is needed for this, if a card instructs you to do a thing after you have the option to do another one, the second one happens also if you choose not to do the first one.



#5 DomaGB

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:29 PM

Wow I am wrong again, seems like I keep learning something new. Tough game to nail down.

 


RoboRally, then Talisman. That's the way it is... ;)


#6 darthmax

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 08:17 PM

I wouldn't say you are wrong. Who really knows? The wording is ambiguous at best on many cards and rarely do you get unconflicting answers when you post questions on this forum. You get opinions that differ which is what I already had. That's why I wondered if there is an official ruling

#7 DomaGB

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 09:30 PM

One could say the pedlar had a customer, tho he wasn't interested, and he decided to move on to greener pastures. Makes sense, but I don't think this is a game changer.


RoboRally, then Talisman. That's the way it is... ;)


#8 talismanamsilat

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 06:18 AM

The Pedlar is definitely moved irrespective of whether or not you buy anything!

 

Ell.



#9 The_Warlock

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 06:32 AM

I wouldn't say you are wrong. Who really knows? The wording is ambiguous at best on many cards and rarely do you get unconflicting answers when you post questions on this forum. You get opinions that differ which is what I already had. That's why I wondered if there is an official ruling

 

Sorry that sometimes my answers are not thoroughly motivated. We do our best to help you as senior players and forum users.

 

I don't know how long ago did you start playing Talisman but you've been following these forums for 3 years. I'm sure DomaGB joined us this November.

 

The point is that persons that have been playing Talisman 4th edition since the beginning (year 2007, with the Revised edition by FFG coming at the end of 2008) have received the expansions gradually and had plenty of time to get acquainted with the contents and the problems within. In some cases such persons already heard an official answer (FAQ) or followed discussions between players in the forums.

 

This does not mean that our answers are right, because we're not entitled to give official answers, but at least we try to bring down to size questions you perceive as big problems or holes in the rules, while they're perhaps just abbreviations, minor inconsistencies that can be explained or known problems that wait for a FAQ.

 

Compare the Pedlar (Frostmarch expansion, end of 2009) and the Carnival (Reaper Expansion, end of 2008). Put the texts in chronological order:

 

Carnival (2008)

Roll 1 die and use the same results as at the Tavern, except that the Boatman result allows you to cross the Storm River as if you were using a Raft. Then the Carnival travels on. Roll a die and move the Carnival that many spaces clockwise around the board.

 

Pedlar (2009)

A Pedlar has set up his stall here. You may buy available items at these prices: Sword 1G, (etc...)... Spell 2G.

Then roll 1 die and move him that many spaces clockwise around the board.

 

You will agree the text on both cards gives exactly the same instructions, in the same order and with the same purpose.

 

You have to roll a die at the Carnival, so there's no option that you end up doing nothing if you encounter the card. With the Pedlar you might not have gold or not want to buy anything, so it might happen that you don't do anything.

 

Notice that the Pedlar has a lot of wares available and they take a lot of space in the card textbox. The Carnival has a slightly different wording, because there was enough room to say "Then the Carnival moves on" (which is only flavour text). "Roll 1 die and...". In the Pedlar card the same instruction is contracted into "then roll 1 die and...".

 

With the Carnival, you won't ever be induced to think that the card is not moved after you encountered it. With the Pedlar, this has never been raised before because the card has always been read the same way as the Carnival. This is surely the right way to handle it and was the original intent of the designers, who often introduced word sequences that could be intuitively understood by the players, at least by the ones who were gradually receiving the new game content.

 

As DomaGB said, this is not a game changer, so you'll probably agree that such a long explanation is a little bit oversized compared to the problem raised.

 

I hope I've clarified what I've considered before giving you my answer.


Edited by The_Warlock, 30 November 2013 - 06:36 AM.

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#10 DomaGB

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 02:47 PM

I owned and played 2nd edition since the 80's, been playing 4th edition since the black box edition, but never owned it til recently. Haven't had my hand on rules til I owned it.


RoboRally, then Talisman. That's the way it is... ;)


#11 darthmax

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 03:44 PM

I had no problem with your answer warlock. As far as I can remember you've always seemed to give correct answers. We hardly ever have a game where something doesnt come up to slow things down. I know it's never gonna be very critical to a game. In this case someone was the prophetess and knew another player had misfortune in hand. He needed to use the pedlar and had the clockwork owl to land on it his next turn. It moving clockwise put it near highland entrance with minstrel exiting highland with trailblazer, and the reaper close by as well. He was trying to get a riding horse to help him run from people.

#12 The_Warlock

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 03:40 AM

We hardly ever have a game where something doesnt come up to slow things down.

 

I know. At least this will happen until you and your fellow players get to know all cards well and don't need to think too much when you encounter them. This does not guarantee that some unknown combinations still give you trouble; something that escaped even the most accurate design and playtesting.

 

Talisman is a game made of a few basic rules and tons of words. Games designed today tend to use 100% clear keywords, while Talisman Revised 4th Ed. kept the 2nd Edition wording that had almost no keywords, with a couple of novelties such as "battle/psychic combat" and the concepts of Strength/Craft "values". Of course using keywords for recurrent effects makes things clearer, but would have removed the vintage and literary feel of the cards.

 

I know it's never gonna be very critical to a game. In this case someone was the prophetess and knew another player had misfortune in hand. He needed to use the pedlar and had the clockwork owl to land on it his next turn. It moving clockwise put it near highland entrance with minstrel exiting highland with trailblazer, and the reaper close by as well. He was trying to get a riding horse to help him run from people.

 

Complex situation, but the Prophetess has always a big edge over the others, because she knows what they might be thinking. I don't understand the exact setting you describe, but if someone wants to land on the Pedlar because he finds appropriate to have him move away, it's possible.


Edited by The_Warlock, 01 December 2013 - 03:42 AM.





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