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Instant Death?


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#21 Jegergryte

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 11:51 AM

I mean, I'd just tell you to use a beefed up Nemesis adversary with a Disruptor rifle... hope for a a few crits... that'll teach them quickly, particularly if the Disruptor toting villain also acts twice per round... which is always fun to put in every once in a while, it scares the hell out of them, confuses them, oh the mirth! that's quickly two crits per round, that is as close to insta-death as you get.... or you end up like me, where the medic in the group carries a disruptor rifle for protection. Luckily for me she is cursed - literally, she is cursed, I've never seen anyone roll as bad as her, she gets yahtzee in blanks all the time, or just loads of threats and despairs...

Now, since the disruptor is so powerful I would actually advice against it... because I hate having a player with a disruptor rifle (let alone more!), and she's smart enough to hide it on the ship when on more civilised planets. :ph34r:

Edited by Jegergryte, 28 November 2013 - 11:53 AM.

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#22 FuriousGreg

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 01:33 PM

I've played in a few groups that fit the description "Murder Hobos" (I like that term) and I found it's mostly the players, however if PCs are a little too indestructible or dish out excessive amounts of damage that may be rules related.

 

My question would be: What House Rules are you using and how are they affecting combat? Did you House Rule Cover + Armor? Are you using ENC or can your PCs carry anything they want? What about combining Skills, leaving more EXP for combat Skills and Talents? Any HR or hand waving of modified equipment?


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#23 Desslok

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 03:05 PM

How would you, as a player or GM, be with having a house rule that has instant death be the result of damage that exceeds twice a character's Wound Threshold?

 

I have seen enough characters die to know that it pretty much kills the game. Oh sure, the player can wheel in a new character and we can integrate them into the story fine enough - but *every* time this has happened, the game never quite recovers. It'll limp along for 6 months or so before eventually petering out. Perhaps its just the way the group dynamic works or the way we build our characters - but five dead characters, five campaigns that limp over the finish line.

 

So I take character death VERY seriously. It should be an event, something important and meaningful - not on a lucky roll of the dice.

 

 

Afterwards I felt pretty bad, and frankly pissed off they were so cavalier in this game.  It's called Roleplaying, and I can tell you that no matter how much of a badass I think I am (and I am) if a bunch of bad guys have me surrounded by crossbows I'm not going to suddenly think there's a chance I could live through that.

 

And the beautiful thing about this game, heavy on the narrative, is that you can override the need for dice. In any other game, you'd roll out all the shots, all the damages and so on - and the players very well might get away from what is quite obviously a not-getawayable situation.

 

Here, however, I'd lovingly describe out a badass last stand, outnumbered and outgunned, as the superior forces slowly whittle down the team until one last one is standing, surrounded by guards. He raises his gun, a sly "Lets party" smirk on his face - and cut to black as the sound of blaster fire rips through the air - and not once touch the dice.

 

GM fiat wins over game mechanics any day of the week.


Edited by Desslok, 28 November 2013 - 03:19 PM.


#24 Kirdan Kenobi

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 04:03 PM

The game calls for you to stop tracking wounds at double wound threshold. What if you were to rule that anyone who reaches that point gets a critical injury at +40 (with an extra +10 for the critical injury they sustained for passing their wound threshold)?

It seems like this would make the game a bit more deadly without going overboard. Thoughts?


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#25 Col. Orange

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 03:44 AM

After wound threshold they're unconscious or incapacitated.  The next hit can just flat out kill them, no?


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#26 Kirdan Kenobi

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:16 AM

After wound threshold they're unconscious or incapacitated.  The next hit can just flat out kill them, no?

True. What was I thinking?


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#27 HappyDaze

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:21 AM

After wound threshold they're unconscious or incapacitated. The next hit can just flat out kill them, no?


Technically it just does more damage (up to double WT) and a critical (increased by +10 per previous critical), so you may have to shoot them over and over again after they're down if you want to be sure they die.

Edited by HappyDaze, 29 November 2013 - 04:22 AM.

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#28 Col. Orange

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:32 AM

"Dead yet?"

[weakly] "No.  But I could do with some medical attention."

BLAM!

"How 'bout now?"

"No, but listen-"

BLAM!

"MY LEG!  MY BEAUTIFUL LEG!"

BLAM!

"Best settle in guys, this may take a while..."


Edited by Col. Orange, 29 November 2013 - 09:01 AM.

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#29 mouthymerc

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 08:11 AM

Black Knight.


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#30 HappyDaze

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 08:18 AM

The double WT max is actually a penalty for those with a high WT. Consider that a character with WT 24 will take longer to heal from being at max than a character with WT 12. If both characters are hit by a strafing TIE fighter, three stimpacks will get the guy with WT 12 back on his feet, but the guy with WT 24 can't even be brought around with five stimpacks!

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#31 Lord Zack

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 03:45 PM

 

It hit me when I had the players surrounded by (damn near) a garrison of troops wielding crossbows, all locked, loaded and pointed at the players, and the commander telling them to surrender.  Did they surrender?


Frankly, it is good GMing practice to assume that no combat focused PC will ever willingly surrender. Use a different trope.

 

 

Sorry ErikB, but not everyone's campaigns are based on Star Wars: Clone Wars. In the Star Wars movies the main characters don't always fight to the death. They sometimes run away, or get captured.

 

"You can't win. But there are alternatives to fighting."

―Obi-Wan Kenobi


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#32 Spjork

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 08:46 PM

The double WT max is actually a penalty for those with a high WT. Consider that a character with WT 24 will take longer to heal from being at max than a character with WT 12. If both characters are hit by a strafing TIE fighter, three stimpacks will get the guy with WT 12 back on his feet, but the guy with WT 24 can't even be brought around with five stimpacks!

 

That's a good point, and it's something I'm not sure I'd want to handwave with, "Well, it looks like the big guy took the brunt of the attack."

 

In that specific scenario, I would probably fix the numbers so it doesn't look like the lightweight walks away while the big guy spends a week in Bacta. Thinking on the fly, I'd probably apply the same amount of damage to both of them by choosing one wound cap and applying that number of wounds to both. So it would be either:

  1. Apply 24 damage to each of them. The lightweight hits his cap and is in for 3-4 days of bacta. The big guy limps away, but just barely. He might opt for a day or two in the tank himself.
  2. Apply 48 damage to each. The big guy hits his cap and is in for 6-8 days of bacta. The lightweight fared even worse, and he'll be in the tank for 9-10 days.

That way, at least when two characters are wounded in the same blast, the wound cap isn't arbitrarily mitigating damage for low-threshold characters.



#33 Union

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 08:06 PM

The double WT max is actually a penalty for those with a high WT. Consider that a character with WT 24 will take longer to heal from being at max than a character with WT 12. If both characters are hit by a strafing TIE fighter, three stimpacks will get the guy with WT 12 back on his feet, but the guy with WT 24 can't even be brought around with five stimpacks!

 

  Under the "dead at double" both would be insta-killed by the Tie as it is doing 60 damage per hit.

 

  I assumed that the implication of stopping tracking at double WT was that the character was dead, otherwise, as you say, having a higher WT has a very weird penalty to it.



#34 Doc, the Weasel

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 10:36 PM

How would you, as a player or GM, be with having a house rule that has instant death be the result of damage that exceeds twice a character's Wound Threshold?

 

Just to be clear, are you saying damage from one hit or the accumulated total of wounds?


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#35 HappyDaze

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 11:07 PM

How would you, as a player or GM, be with having a house rule that has instant death be the result of damage that exceeds twice a character's Wound Threshold?

 
Just to be clear, are you saying damage from one hit or the accumulated total of wounds?
The way he explained it to me it was based on total damage accumulated.

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#36 archon007

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 06:55 PM

How would you, as a player or GM, be with having a house rule that has instant death be the result of damage that exceeds twice a character's Wound Threshold?


I would never do this for PCs. That's what the critical system is for.

#37 Shamrock

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:42 AM

How would you, as a player or GM, be with having a house rule that has instant death be the result of damage that exceeds twice a character's Wound Threshold?

 

My group and I tend to play more lethal games (Hellfrost, All Flesh Must Be Eaten, Cthulhu, etc...), so this element of “life” is something we all like and appreciate the nuances of…. It’s not for everybody though.

 

So my answer is... I'm actually alright with it provided it fits the event and story.  Getting hit with a tank should be instant death, otherwise what good are tanks?  Anything less does a disservice to the game.  Death is a real thing, and provides an element of realism to the game.  (I fully know it's a fake game, but we try to keep some constants in it).
I'm not saying a GM should get all George R.R. Martian, or Robert Kirkman, but if it happens I don't shy away from it.

That said, I take a lot of things into account here.  1) The player isn't acting like an idiot.  2) If the player goes down (acting in character), I actually still provide the xp for the session and allow the player's new character to come in with the same amount of total xp the dead one had, providing that's what the player would like (you'd be surprised how many don't take that offer because they want to start "new").  That keeps the group, semi-fresh, and interesting, it also keeps my players thinking and cautious, as they should be while poking hutts.  

 

The rim, is a death sentence, the success stories are few and far between. Not many "moral compus'" make it out alive. As an element of the game, the players are regularly stepping into the ring with cartels/gangs/mafia types.  No matter what you do in the game, you end up ticking off one side or the other and these aren't people to trifle with.

 

Anyway, as noted, it works for us, but wont for everyone.  If you're a GM/player interested in this type of game, I highly recommend you speak with your table and see what they want/like.


Edited by Shamrock, 04 December 2013 - 12:44 AM.

Be well,

 

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