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Force jump and falling ?


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#1 JP_JP

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:08 PM

In real life, it's usually easier to brace when falling then jump... so you can fall down from higher then you can jump up....

 

With the Force Power Tree : Enhance... with Force Jump, could you use that force power to cancel out the effects of falling damage ? I mean, if your force enhanced legs are strong enough to push you up in the air to "medium range", then they sould be strong enough to absorb the impact of the fall.

 

Maybe make a Athletics check to make sure your characters knows how to brace for a fall and a Force Jump check to see if he's force enhanced. I'm not sure how it would play out mechanically, but I think you could reduce falling damage with Force Jump.

What do you guys think ?



#2 aramis

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 12:00 AM

logically, if you can jump to medium, you should be able to shock absorb from medium.

But I don't think it is strengthening the legs, but is more likely either telekinetic or gravity alteration. in origin.
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#3 HappyDaze

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:24 AM

I think I'd be fine for using Force Jump to jump down. That's not to say I'd allow it to be used to cancel falling damage. I see there being a difference between actively using a Force power to descend safely and having some passive 'feather fall' counter to falling damage when the Force-user is knocked from a height. I'm sure the latter could be a Force technique too, but I don't feel it's included in Force Jump.


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#4 Shakespearian_Soldier

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 03:24 AM

I'd say it would be fine. I mean, in Episode II, Anakin leapt from the cliff-edge to reach the Tusken Raider encampment without injuring himself (though I would, in-game, count it as an active use of the Power to absorb the avoided impact, as the character is effectively using the Force to cushion his descent).


Edited by Shakespearian_Soldier, 28 November 2013 - 03:26 AM.

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#5 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 03:58 AM

I'd say it would be fine. I mean, in Episode II, Anakin leapt from the cliff-edge to reach the Tusken Raider encampment without injuring himself (though I would, in-game, count it as an active use of the Power to absorb the avoided impact, as the character is effectively using the Force to cushion his descent).

There was also his skydiving stunt during the speeder chase sequence on Coruscant.  He probably "fell" a heck of a distance to land on Zam's own speeder, and didn't seem any the worse for wear after doing so.  And given Obi-Wan's reaction, it's probably not the first time the kid's pulled that kind of stunt.  We also see Obi-Wan "leap down" a fair distance to confront General Grievous on Utapau, and he's certainly not injured in doing so.

 

So in answer to the OP's question, if the Force-user had knowingly made the "jump down" and had the appropriate Control and Range upgrades (plus the Force Points to activate them), then sure they could "fall" an appreciable distance and not get hurt.  Granted, if the distance between the starting point and the landing point was akin to Extreme Range, then your Force-user would need to activate that Range Upgrade three times in order to avoid taking any damage, requiring a total of 4 Force Points to pull it off.  So it's not the thing your average F/S Exile/Emergent is going to be doing on a regular basis.


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#6 Shakespearian_Soldier

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 05:10 AM

 

I'd say it would be fine. I mean, in Episode II, Anakin leapt from the cliff-edge to reach the Tusken Raider encampment without injuring himself (though I would, in-game, count it as an active use of the Power to absorb the avoided impact, as the character is effectively using the Force to cushion his descent).

There was also his skydiving stunt during the speeder chase sequence on Coruscant.  He probably "fell" a heck of a distance to land on Zam's own speeder, and didn't seem any the worse for wear after doing so.  And given Obi-Wan's reaction, it's probably not the first time the kid's pulled that kind of stunt.  We also see Obi-Wan "leap down" a fair distance to confront General Grievous on Utapau, and he's certainly not injured in doing so.

 

So in answer to the OP's question, if the Force-user had knowingly made the "jump down" and had the appropriate Control and Range upgrades (plus the Force Points to activate them), then sure they could "fall" an appreciable distance and not get hurt.  Granted, if the distance between the starting point and the landing point was akin to Extreme Range, then your Force-user would need to activate that Range Upgrade three times in order to avoid taking any damage, requiring a total of 4 Force Points to pull it off.  So it's not the thing your average F/S Exile/Emergent is going to be doing on a regular basis.

 

 

This.


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#7 whafrog

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:43 AM

They do it all the time in TCW.  Also, circumstances might vary system to system, but on any planet with "Coruscant normal" gravity and a breathable atmosphere, you're going to hit terminal velocity pretty quickly, which means at some point, range doesn't matter.  Which range band is far enough to fall to hit terminal velocity?



#8 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 06:35 PM

They do it all the time in TCW.  Also, circumstances might vary system to system, but on any planet with "Coruscant normal" gravity and a breathable atmosphere, you're going to hit terminal velocity pretty quickly, which means at some point, range doesn't matter.  Which range band is far enough to fall to hit terminal velocity?

Going by the chart on page 215 of the EotE core rulebook or page 152 of the AoR Beta rulebook, I'd say Extreme range is terminal velocity, as the victim is incapacitated and there's a +75 bonus on the critical injury check, with the GM having the option to rule it as instant death.  And the victim suffers 40 points of Strain damage as well, so even if they do somehow survive, they're going to be useless for a while until they can recover that Strain as well as being pretty badly banged up as a result of that critical injury.

 

Long range is also fairly nasty, leaving the victim incapacitated, suffers 30 points of Strain damage, and a critical injury with a +50 modifier to the roll.  So instant death from such a plunge is still possible, but the victim is more likely to survive a fall from this height than they would the Extreme Range fall.


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#9 Kallabecca

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:33 PM

Terminal Velocity can be reached after a fall of about 1.5km if you're falling down upright (head first or feet first). You'll be falling at about 80m/s (300km/hr or 180mph) and requires about 20 seconds of fall time to reach. If you lay flat like most sky divers do when controlling their position you'll fall about 250m before reaching terminal velocity with a speed of 40m/s (150km/hr or 90mph) and takes about 9 seconds of fall time to reach.

 

Assumptions in the calculations. Air density is constant for the fall (not true if you're falling from 150,000 feet). Gravity is fixed throughout the fall (not true for large distances away from the surface).

Gravity: 9.8m/s^2

mass: 90kg

Drag Coefficient: 1

Air Density: 1.03

Surface Area: .25m^2 for feet first. 1m^2 for body prone.

 

Terminal Velocity = square root (2 * mass * gravity/ (drag coefficient * Air Density * surface area))

 

So, if you're on a planet with different gravity or air density, then the terminal velocity will change. It also changes based on the surface area presented, like what the body suits do to free fallers allowing them to have an actual glide slope of less than infinity.


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#10 kaosoe

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 08:28 AM

Everytime someone brings up real world physics in a star wars forum, Lucas kills a Togorian.


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#11 whafrog

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 09:09 AM

Everytime someone brings up real world physics in a star wars forum, Lucas kills a Togorian.


Good. Tiger-people...sheesh.

If real world physics doesn't matter, why does gravity hurt? Double-sheesh.
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#12 Kallabecca

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 12:42 PM

Everytime someone brings up real world physics in a star wars forum, Lucas kills a Togorian.

Your point? Someone asked how far of a fall is Terminal Velocity. Rather than making guesses, I provided something to help.


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#13 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 06:10 AM

 

Your point? Someone asked how far of a fall is Terminal Velocity. Rather than making guesses, I provided something to help.

Everytime someone brings up real world physics in a star wars forum, Lucas kills a Togorian.

 

They asked the question in reference to the game's mechanics, namely at which range band would need to be crossed before hitting "terminal velocity" from an in-game perspective.

 

So while informative, your post didn't really do anything to answer the question being asked since this game doesn't use hard-coded distances the way many other mainstream RPGs do.


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#14 Aservan

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:30 AM

Most gamers don't want to do math when playing, and some gamers really resent the folks who can.  It's usually not worth bringing up at a table.  Given that we are talking about a whole range of gravities, air densities, compositions, and the like probably no one wants to pause the game while the math is done.

 

A simple way to do things. Force jumpers won't take falling damage if they have time to use force jump.  So if they fall long enough or are jumping on purpose they don't take damage and don't need a parachute or a jet pack.  It's the medium range falls that get them, or falls into fusion reactors (i.e. Darth Sidious).

 

For long falls where they would theoretically have time to recover their wits you could make the player make a Cool roll (maybe Discipline?) to see if they have the presence of mind to calm down and use the Force.

 

I don't find one roll or you die situations all that entertaining.  Those kinds of things makes players overly cautious and extremely boring.  Star Wars is replete with high altitude fighting on ledges, weird reactors, gas mines, etc.  Being relaxed when it comes to falling damage makes genre sense.


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#15 Kallabecca

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 02:08 PM

 

 

Your point? Someone asked how far of a fall is Terminal Velocity. Rather than making guesses, I provided something to help.

Everytime someone brings up real world physics in a star wars forum, Lucas kills a Togorian.

 

They asked the question in reference to the game's mechanics, namely at which range band would need to be crossed before hitting "terminal velocity" from an in-game perspective.

 

So while informative, your post didn't really do anything to answer the question being asked since this game doesn't use hard-coded distances the way many other mainstream RPGs do.

 

Donovan: I get that the original poster didn't ask for real world distances, but couched it in game mechanics terms. But the person I was asking about their quote wasn't the original poster, nor was it you.

 

The point of showing real math was to show that there are two components to reaching Terminal Velocity. One is time, the other is distance. Both are "abstracted" in this system to a degree, but having at least some understanding of it does help, even for the mathematically uneducated. So, what I posted does help answer the question since the GM would need to have some idea of what is Short, Medium, Long or Extreme range. Notice that if you fall flat, you'll reach Terminal Velocity in what I would consider Long range (250m) vs Extreme range if you go toe/head first (1500m).


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