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Centurion Armor


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#1 pearldrum1

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 03:26 AM

http://warhammer40k..../wiki/Centurion

 

 

I was wondering, has anyone attempted to come up with some House Rules for this particularly awesome suit of armor? I could see it being fun for a particular mission or two with my squad.

 

Thoughts?



#2 Korvis

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 12:59 AM

I would start with Terminator Armor and build on extra armor value as well as weapons.  I imagine mvement rates and agility would be less than Terminator Armor and depending on the mission area (Space Hulk or other confined spaces) there could be a size liability to be considered.  Noise could also be a liability issue on some missions as stomping around in this armor would be less than stealthy....to put it mildly.



#3 pearldrum1

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 01:50 AM

Oh yeah, definitely. I was thinking of maybe a "hole-plugger" (insert sophomoric giggle here) of sorts holding the line against overwhelming enemy odds. Or maybe entrusted to the team by a certain Chapter or the Deathwatch to reclaim a lost relic from a particularly hazardous area.

 

What do you think the pre-reqs for being able to even don a suit should be?



#4 Routa-maa

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 03:45 AM

Hmm at least you wouldn't need Terminator Honours, like Terminator armour needs.

Taken from Lexicanum:

 

"Battle-Brothers learn to pilot Centurions as part of their vehicle training, and pilots are not chosen from the 1st Company. Instead, they are chosen from the Chapter's Assault and Devastator units. The most frequent explanation of this is that a Centurion's role requires a Space Marine to be fully immersed in a particular style of war, while the bulky exosuits lack the degree of tactical flexibility that the Chapter's Veterans require."

 

Requisition cost possibly in line with Terminator armour.

Renown rating lower than Terminator armour

possibly only gained for mission on behalf of Watch Commander

Size (same as dreadnought) I don't have my books at hand so might modify this when I get home.

Not able to run


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#5 Korvis

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 03:56 AM

Upgrade form a Devastator.  Double the Req (to justify additional weapons and ammo as well as Armor) and Renown from Devastator as rarity within the DW would be rather extreme IMO.  Mission type would have to be extremely specific in nature and parameters,  On the flip side, perhaps there should be a significant downside to loss of this Armor on mission due to it's (alleged or supposed) rarity within the DW.....loss of Renown.



#6 pearldrum1

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:09 AM

Upgrade form a Devastator.  Double the Req (to justify additional weapons and ammo as well as Armor) and Renown from Devastator as rarity within the DW would be rather extreme IMO.  Mission type would have to be extremely specific in nature and parameters,  On the flip side, perhaps there should be a significant downside to loss of this Armor on mission due to it's (alleged or supposed) rarity within the DW.....loss of Renown.

 

You are saying Devastator, but do you mean Dreadnought?



#7 pearldrum1

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:11 AM

Hmm at least you wouldn't need Terminator Honours, like Terminator armour needs.

Taken from Lexicanum:

 

"Battle-Brothers learn to pilot Centurions as part of their vehicle training, and pilots are not chosen from the 1st Company. Instead, they are chosen from the Chapter's Assault and Devastator units. The most frequent explanation of this is that a Centurion's role requires a Space Marine to be fully immersed in a particular style of war, while the bulky exosuits lack the degree of tactical flexibility that the Chapter's Veterans require."

 

Requisition cost possibly in line with Terminator armour.

Renown rating lower than Terminator armour

possibly only gained for mission on behalf of Watch Commander

Size (same as dreadnought) I don't have my books at hand so might modify this when I get home.

Not able to run

 

Yeah, I read that today as a matter of fact. No Termie honors necessary. Lower renown as a result.

 

I would like it to be a special mission later on when their renown gets up. I am liking this.

 

Are there any stats for Hurricane bolters anywhere or would you just up the RoF and add the storm quality?



#8 Korvis

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:55 AM

 

Upgrade form a Devastator.  Double the Req (to justify additional weapons and ammo as well as Armor) and Renown from Devastator as rarity within the DW would be rather extreme IMO.  Mission type would have to be extremely specific in nature and parameters,  On the flip side, perhaps there should be a significant downside to loss of this Armor on mission due to it's (alleged or supposed) rarity within the DW.....loss of Renown.

 

You are saying Devastator, but do you mean Dreadnought?

 

No.  In context of the TTG, Centurions are between Devastator and Dreadnaught in firepower and between Terminator and Dreadnaught in Armor though without the "honors".  



#9 Routa-maa

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:15 AM

 

Hmm at least you wouldn't need Terminator Honours, like Terminator armour needs.

Taken from Lexicanum:

 

"Battle-Brothers learn to pilot Centurions as part of their vehicle training, and pilots are not chosen from the 1st Company. Instead, they are chosen from the Chapter's Assault and Devastator units. The most frequent explanation of this is that a Centurion's role requires a Space Marine to be fully immersed in a particular style of war, while the bulky exosuits lack the degree of tactical flexibility that the Chapter's Veterans require."

 

Requisition cost possibly in line with Terminator armour.

Renown rating lower than Terminator armour

possibly only gained for mission on behalf of Watch Commander

Size (same as dreadnought) I don't have my books at hand so might modify this when I get home.

Not able to run

 

Yeah, I read that today as a matter of fact. No Termie honors necessary. Lower renown as a result.

 

I would like it to be a special mission later on when their renown gets up. I am liking this.

 

Are there any stats for Hurricane bolters anywhere or would you just up the RoF and add the storm quality?

 

Hurricane Bolter stats can be found in Rites of Battle p.173

Also stats for dreadnought frag assault launcher on p.182

Both also have newer stats in Errata.


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#10 pearldrum1

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:16 AM

Victory. Thank you guys both.

 

If you have anymore thoughts on the subject, how to use them in game, anything just keep posting. I am soaking it up like a sponge.



#11 Routa-maa

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:21 AM

Well nothing comes to mind right now, but if you get something bashed together post it and let's see from there on.

 

Edit: What did you thought to use for Assaults Centurions seige drill. Don't remember was there stats for that in RoB.


Edited by Routa-maa, 26 November 2013 - 05:22 AM.

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#12 pearldrum1

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:19 AM

As of right now, I have no clue.



#13 Jargal

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 10:24 AM

How about Bulkhead Shears (RoB, p.139) as base for Siege Drill? It is weaker (after Errata) than Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon (and Lexicanum says "An Assault Drill, also known as a Siege Drill, is a weapon used by Space Marine Siege Dreadnoughts and Centurions to breach fortifications during siege operations. The smaller version of the weapon is known as a Siege Drill when employed by Centurions") but not so bad in itself.


Edited by Jargal, 26 November 2013 - 10:25 AM.


#14 pearldrum1

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 06:49 PM

How about Bulkhead Shears (RoB, p.139) as base for Siege Drill? It is weaker (after Errata) than Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon (and Lexicanum says "An Assault Drill, also known as a Siege Drill, is a weapon used by Space Marine Siege Dreadnoughts and Centurions to breach fortifications during siege operations. The smaller version of the weapon is known as a Siege Drill when employed by Centurions") but not so bad in itself.

 

 

That would be a good start. Does anyone see any problems with that?



#15 Lynata

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 09:03 PM

To suggest one alternative approach - when implementing material from other sources, I tend to compare how other profiles from that source compare to existing items in whatever environment I wish to import it to.

 

Siege Drills seem fairly monstrous, at S9 AP2 Armourbane, Specialist Weapon

Looking at weapons with similar values in Deathwatch (Lascannon, Chainfist), I'm arriving at: 5d10+10 R, AP 10

As this profile is for two drills used in unison, I'd suggest 2d10+15 R, AP 10 for a single drill.

For Armourbane, I would suggest doubling Pen if used against vehicles or buildings.

For the Specialist Weapon trait, using only a single Siege Drill instead of two might incur a -10 penalty to Weapon Skill.

 

As this is a rather destructive piece of equipment if used as a pair, I'd recommend taking great caution in how it is applied. If it seems too strong even for a Centurion's inhibited mobility, perhaps grant targets a +10 bonus to their Dodge?

Oh, and it probably shouldn't be possible to Parry this ... at least not more than once.


Edited by Lynata, 26 November 2013 - 09:05 PM.

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#16 pearldrum1

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 09:40 PM

What about Armor Points for the Armor? Any ideas there?

 

Obviously, build off the Terminator Armor, with perhaps the exception of the head? I see on the armor that the normal Helmet is uncovered by the extra armor. Could be interesting with a lucky hit.


Edited by pearldrum1, 26 November 2013 - 09:59 PM.


#17 Routa-maa

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 12:44 AM

Well I don't know for sure. Checked pictures of centurion and they seem to have little bit, only little, differend helmet than normal marines.

 

Might be only better ventilation for the excess heat or better auto-sense system.

 

Give somewere around same armour as terminator (or slightly better, it's your call) but take into account that they seem to have better armour up front. So something similar as in Iron Armour, if I remember correctly, attacks from behind have lesser armour to penetrate.

 

Also if power generator fails, it might be impossible to move all that metal, even with astartes strength.

So power generator destroyed / under haywire effect (effect that give penalties to characters in power armour), means immobile or double the strength penalty needed to move Centurion armour.


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#18 Kshatriya

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 05:17 PM

I guess I have a real problem with Centurion armor being better than Termie and easier to get. 



#19 pearldrum1

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 05:35 PM

I guess I have a real problem with Centurion armor being better than Termie and easier to get. 

 

 

I think lore wise, this is because it lacks black carapace interface and slows down the Marine considerably - even though it is basically a tank-suit. It would only be viable for a fun way to integrate a new battle system into a prolonged defense of an important objective. Since it is relegated to Assault and Dev marines only, for my personal group only two members could benefit from it. I would probably offset this by letting the Tech Marine get his hands on one of those mobile assault cannons that Astartes sometimes field. I forget the name but they look like enormous gattling guns on tracks.

 

I think it would be really cool for one mission - more interactive and break up the monotony of find objective, kill baddies.



#20 Lynata

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 08:45 PM

 

What about Armor Points for the Armor? Any ideas there?

 

Obviously, build off the Terminator Armor, with perhaps the exception of the head? I see on the armor that the normal Helmet is uncovered by the extra armor. Could be interesting with a lucky hit.

Well, in the TT they use a 2+ save, so looking towards the Terminator armor seems like a good idea. It is, however, also notable that the Centurion suit does not only not cover the head, but also the backsides of the operator's legs. The Marine literally "steps into" the suit, still wearing his normal power armour, and it folds down over his back.

 

So what I'd do is perhaps give the front side slightly better protection than TDA, but use standard power armour AP for the head and rear legs?

 

Head: 8 AP

Body: 16 AP

Arms: 14 AP

Legs: 14 AP (8 AP if shot from behind or the sides)

 

A small penalty to Agility/Dodge could also limit the suit's "attractivity" for players who think one of these is a free ticket for godmode massacres. :P


Edited by Lynata, 27 November 2013 - 08:50 PM.

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current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)




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