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Space marines in Rogue Trader


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#101 CaptainStabby

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 01:01 PM

Rogue Traders by their mandate handed down from the Emperor are exempt from all of that. Full stop. (outside Imperial space anyhow)

 

As I said before the Marine may not like it, but frankly, outside the borders of the Imperium he really doesn't get a vote. Also any chapter that has ties to a RT Dynasty is going to get that. 

 

As long as the RT isn't doing anything that directly hurts The Imperium he likely won't get shot in the face by the Marine. 



#102 JiveProfessor

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 07:01 PM

If played properly and with the right justification almost anything can work in the 40k universe. I can think of a few reasons a lone Space Marine might be tooling around with a Rogue Trader, and being from a dead Chapter while harboring a dream of rebuilding it seems appropriately over the top to me.

 
While having a space marine aboard certainly meets the requisite "over the top" aspect of Rogue Trader and 40K, in general, how would that space marine deal with the other core concepts of Rogue Trader - like dealing with xenos and their technology?  Not well, I would imagine, whether he's from a disgraced/dead chapter or not.  Sure, not all crews are into that sort of thing, but most tend to be.
 
While I think all agree that creativity and pushing the envelope a bit is part in parcel with the game, having a space marine around would close more doors than it would open.

Having a Space Marine in the party certainly does close some doors and potentially open less, there is always that chance and it is certainly likely. However, if that is what the GM and players want who am I to pass judgment on it. Simply put the justifications for a marine are a smaller pool than say an Arch-Militant or Senechal. But I would wager it is not considerably less than say a Kroot Shaper or Ork Weirdboy or even a Missionary. At the end of the day as long as everyone at the table understands the consequences of having any given character type on-board then I think the game will go just fine.

Not to mention there is a sort of fun throwback element to 40k's 1st edition tabletop rules (also called Rogue Trader) where you had marines being ferried about by Rogue Traders. The fluff has changed a lot since then obviously, but it is still a fun idea.

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#103 Spatulaodoom

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:27 AM

For my part I'd be a little leery of letting a SM into the game I run simply because I don't have the books their content is in and don't have a solid grasp of the rules differences. From what I've observed and heard from others they are roughly in the same power ballpark (assuming equal XP to spend and appropriate to rank/level gear). so that doesn't appear to be a major problem. Most Space Marines would simply fill the same niche as the Arch Militant.

 

Most of the “problems” can easily be overcome with a little imagination, which to me makes it hilarious that one of the charges levelled against someone wanting to play a SM is a lack thereof.

 

Regarding gear: Considering it's usually the AdMech who make the space marine's gear I wouldn't have any problem with the Explorator (who is automatically at least a Magos) petitioning for and receiving some extra blueprints and training regarding repairing and maintaining the SM's gear if the SM himself can't. Heck if you decide to allow the Explorator to craft stuff then there's no reason why he can't again get permission and appropriate blueprints/materials to craft things for the Space Marine (and only that specific space marine). It would almost certainly be more difficult to get permission/parts/blueprints and to actually do the crafting to make the gear, but then again he gets bragging rights that he's made Asartes gear.

 

Maybe the SM's acquisition tests for new gear can represent attempts to requisition equipment from his home chapter or nearby chapters and having it shipped out to him. When the acquisition check comes through that's when the shipment arrives. Or maybe the acquisition test represents him recovering “relics” held in trust, like recovering a damaged Asartes plasma pistol that was gifted to a noble house as a symbol of their service to the chapter and having it repaired. Or it represents him noticing it in the wares of a junk trader who never knew what it was. Or maybe the test against the RT's profit factor represents the likelihood of someone literally finding a forgotten Asartes weapon from a destroyed/lost chapter stashed away in some dark niche of the ship's hold that hasn't been opened in hundreds of years, with no one knowing how got there. Figuring out the story behind it could be a fun and interesting little side quest.

Acquisition is abstract for a reason, and doesn't just represent cash monies, but also influence, contracts, and things of value not in money form.

 

Regarding serving aboard a RT ship: I think it's been covered enough that I don't need to do so again.

 

Regarding how they are played: Well RT is a game where one character, the RT, is supposed to be “the boss.” So I guess we already have potential conflicts there with one player power tripping all over the others.

Same with a Missionary who ignores the fluff information at the start of the career path listing in favor of screaming HERETIC and breaking out the flamer every time someone doesn't stick out their pinky enough to please the emperor when drinking their tea.

Or an Explorator, Navigator, Seneschal.

If you'd trust the player to play any of those careers without being a d!@k, then you can probably trust them to play a SM.

SM would be played would probably depend on their chapter of origin. For example Ultramarines versus Space Wolves. Guess what, there are tons more chapters than what are “officially listed,” so make up one that fits.

 

The Star Hawk chapter. Founded from the White Scars, they are somewhat freewheeling and mostly only pay lip service to the codex. A fleet based chapter the Star Hawks have a large number of ships and fighters compared to the run of the mill chapter. Unsurprisingly, specialize in fleet actions and boardings. That's not to say you'll never find them with their feet in the dirt, but they're more comfortable in the depths of the void or on the deck of a ship than the trenches. During the Meritech wars RT Dynasty X rescued a crippled Star Hawk strike cruiser that had been set on by a pack of meritech ships and was about to be overwhelmed. Since then Dynasty has had a single battle brother “adviser” on detached duty aboard your ships. For the Star Hawks the tour, lasting a mere couple of decades at a time, is often an indicator that the battle brother in question is being considered for promotion to captain one of the Star Hawk ships. The posting is intended to give them a grounding in how non SM folks think and go about running and fighting their ships so that they can better predict the enemy's actions, as an added bonus it's not the chapter's ships put at risk while giving the battle brother "seasoning."

 

 

 

HAILAK: The only question you need to ask yourself is “Are my players and I having fun?” If the answer is yes then you made the right decision. F)@# game balance and s@$&w the fluff, as long as you guys are having fun you're doing the right thing.


Edited by Spatulaodoom, 03 December 2013 - 04:35 AM.


#104 Tenebrae

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:19 AM

From what I've observed and heard from others they are roughly in the same power ballpark (assuming equal XP to spend and appropriate to rank/level gear). so that doesn't appear to be a major problem.

I hate to be the contrarian* but I'm reasonably sure it's actually the other way around.

Marines are given a phantom or theoretical XP value, to indicate at about what level they would be equal to other PC.

It's the progression from there which messes things up mind you.

 

 

* a minor untruth perhaps. Just like the previous sentence. ;)



#105 CaptainStabby

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 12:50 PM

Except the math that was posted says your certainty is incorrect. 

 

I don't actually think the progression is too much of a problem if you leverage it as a feature as opposed to a bug. Marines level slower but start out more powerful *shrug*. Sounds kinda like balance to me. There are a lot of game systems that don't use universal level progression across their various character types/classes for that very reason.

 

Balance != Equality I don't know why people think it is, especially in a game like RT where you can flat out blow up planets.

 

All of the PC's for the lines are given phantom xp except DH because that's the baseline. (and maybe OW I haven't bothered reading it much) 


Edited by CaptainStabby, 03 December 2013 - 12:51 PM.


#106 JiveProfessor

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:12 PM

That's another thing for RT that I think acts as a huge balancing factor. What is strength of arms compared to the weight of dynastic clout? What is a bolter compared to fleet of voidships?


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#107 Tenebrae

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:45 PM


Balance != Equality I don't know why people think it is, especially in a game like RT where you can flat out blow up planets.

 

So very true!



#108 Erathia

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 06:39 PM

That's another thing for RT that I think acts as a huge balancing factor. What is strength of arms compared to the weight of dynastic clout? What is a bolter compared to fleet of voidships?

Depends if the bolter is held to the irreplaceable Warrant of Trade or not.


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#109 CaptainRemiVandigrath

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 09:00 PM

 

That's another thing for RT that I think acts as a huge balancing factor. What is strength of arms compared to the weight of dynastic clout? What is a bolter compared to fleet of voidships?

Depends if the bolter is held to the irreplaceable Warrant of Trade or not.

 

 

Or if the bolter is the irreplaceable Warrant of Trade


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#110 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:55 PM

Given that the Lidless Stare is kind of an eye-contact based thing (though not completely) it makes little sense that looking away requires a roll at all.  So yeah, its a house rule because making people roll is often not compelling gameplay.

 

I think the idea is the spectators are inexorably drawn to looking at the eye.



#111 Erathia

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 08:00 PM

 

 


Given that the Lidless Stare is kind of an eye-contact based thing (though not completely) it makes little sense that looking away requires a roll at all.  So yeah, its a house rule because making people roll is often not compelling gameplay.

I think the idea is the spectators are inexorably drawn to looking at the eye.

 

 

I think the idea is that the Warp is being channeled at you, so even if you're not looking your soul still is. Also, even if I turn my back on a lightbulb I can see the light from it streaming around me.


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