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Donovan was right and I was wrong


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#181 Shakespearian_Soldier

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 06:36 PM

I think the thing to consider is that every game - be it star wars, HERO, D&D, what have you - will eventually have the players on such an extreme on the XP curve that they out power the game, unless you're throwing a Darth Vader a week at them. All games have shelf lives and some handle it better than others (my group could get a WEG Star Wars game to last 5 years). It'll be interesting to see how the FFG engine handles a half decade of millage under the hood.

 

I agree entirely. The campaign I played in was WEG, and it ran for 7 years before my Jedi became so potent that he managed to take on the "first Sith"'s spirit... and win. He was Revan's Padawan, and by the end of the campaign was rolling something like 22D+2 on lightsaber (with powers active, but not counting the penalties to dice pool for HAVING those powers active - also counting bonuses from self-made lightsaber).


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#182 Shakespearian_Soldier

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 06:39 PM

I agree. I played a 3-year game of L5R and by the end of it, my character was Rank 7, extremely powerful at swordsmanship and dueling. But she still hit a karmic strike with the BBEG in the endgame iaijutsu duel, which led her to strongly question her position of right vs wrong going into the final scenes, given that Heaven had not granted her obvious success. That was a great dramatic moment and appropriate for the tail-end of the game.

 

I LOVE L5R, but have never yet found a game to play in. :( I've got a long-wanted-to-run concept for a character - a heimen child who was adopted by an Akodo samurai of respectable status after he saw in her all of the most desirable qualities in a Lion Samurai-ko. As she grows up, she reveals a powerful talent for tactics and martial traits that earn her respect from her fellow Lion samurai. Her background was inspired heavily by the song "Abraham's Daughter" (one of the themes from the Hunger Games).

 

Sorry to detract from the topic. :) Just love the concept.


"Beg for your life. No, doing so won't save you - but it will make your death more amusing to watch."
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#183 FuriousGreg

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:57 PM

I live in Toronto, and there are no more phone booths to be found.

 

It's all about the crack cocaine, now.  :P

No phone booths but our own pair of Hutts...


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#184 Jon D

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:24 AM

hahaha you referenced the exact trailer I had previously seen and told you was not relevant. Somehow I knew you would! Keepin' it classy as usual. Gotta love you thinking one phrase in a 16-second trailer is the be-all, end-all.

 So, to be clear, you expect there will be no Jedi action in Rebels?

I expect they are going to get killed. Luke being the Last Jedi doesn't bode well them.

Going to enjoy watching Stormtroopers gun them down.

#185 Kshatriya

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 11:06 AM

Yeah, having a ton of Jedi running around in the Dark Times completely trivializes Luke's story and how important he is for the continuation of the order. How TFU dealt with remaining Jedi (insane hermits except Rahm Kota) worked well for me. They weren't interested in fixing the order. They were interested in surviving, insane or not.



#186 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 02:21 PM

Yeah, having a ton of Jedi running around in the Dark Times completely trivializes Luke's story and how important he is for the continuation of the order. How TFU dealt with remaining Jedi (insane hermits except Rahm Kota) worked well for me. They weren't interested in fixing the order. They were interested in surviving, insane or not.

That seems to be the modus operandi of all the Jedi survivors of Order 66 and the ensuing purge; keep a low profile until the Force says "the time is right."  Most of them were probably caught off-guard when Luke showed up and allegedly took down both Vader and the Emperor (in spite of Luke saying otherwise, most folks just presume he's being modest about him taking down the two top Imperial authority figures).  But enough of them remember Anakin Skywalker, and how he wasn't exactly the model of a proper Jedi, and for a while are uncertain about coming out of hiding, particularly when Luke declares he's re-booting the Jedi Order.  Having been focused on survival for close to three decades by that point, what few survivors remained likely adopted a "wait and see" approach to determine if the galaxy would accept a New Jedi Order.  Going by the NJO timeline, things were pretty shaky, and Luke's training methods had caused it's own share of problems, so again the Jedi survivors stuck to "watch and wait."  Going by the Legacy comics, eventually Luke go things going in a satisfactory direction for some of the old-timers to come out of hiding and sign up with his New Jedi Order.


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#187 Jon D

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:59 PM

It doesn't help that overtly supporting the Rebellion as Jedi would bring a world of hurt on them. Knocking over supply depots and blowing up comm centers gets the law and Imperial Intelligence after you.

Doing so while packing a glow stick of destiny gets the law and Intelligence after you. Plus Vader, Sith Inquisitors, and Emperor's Hand or three, plus all of their resources. And when that happens you've not just screwed yourself but the entire cell you were working with.

Best to keep your hrad down and do what you can as Joe Average. The risks are way to high.

#188 ErikB

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 04:15 PM

Eh. Samurai Jack is the way to do wondering swordsman vs. the legions of the Dark Lord.


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#189 Jon D

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 04:35 PM

Oh, totally. But Jack has an entirely different feel. If anything, Luke would be the Jack of Star Wars, he just has a really intricate support network. At least at first. Once Vader proves the force users can't fly, it's more about the Rebels winning the war than Luke. He's still a hero, but not The Hero.

#190 ErikB

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 05:25 PM

Oh, totally. But Jack has an entirely different feel.

 

They've said they want Rebels to be a upbeat show, so its probably going to be on the A-Team or Asterix end of being hunted by the Evil Empire stories.

 

Asterix%20-09-%20Asterix%20and%20The%20B

 

Gandalf and Aragorn resisting Sauron or an Errol Flynn Robin Hood movie.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=xXHVDRgAFMk

 

Or Willow for that matter.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=D-P03NGSP6Y


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#191 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 07:19 AM

Samurai Jack is also an entirely different genre, and the guy's gotten training the likes of which would make most heroic figures green with envy.  Frankly, the only thing keeping Jack from being a Marty Stu is that he's facing a godlike being and his "honor before reason" mindset that often sabotages his attempts to return to the past and undo the future that is Aku.

 

And Jack could never fly... but he could jump good! :D


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#192 mouthymerc

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 07:27 AM

Wasn't the first Clone Wars cartoon basically Samurai Jack/Jedi anyways? Done by the same guy wasn't it?


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#193 ErikB

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 11:34 AM

You'd have to work pretty hard to come up with something more Star Wars than this kind of thing.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nOInu2CQX9c


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#194 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 03:09 PM

Wasn't the first Clone Wars cartoon basically Samurai Jack/Jedi anyways? Done by the same guy wasn't it?

Yep, Genndy Tartoffsky (probably butchered the spelling of his name).  And the series was pretty much intended to be as over-the-top as possible, with Mace Windu pretty much being the one-man unstoppable army that Jack was in his own series.

 

The CGI series that followed, while keeping some of the same look, was deliberately toned down; the Jedi were certainly far above the norm, but they weren't on par with the human fighters from Dragonball Z (aka bush-league gods in weighted kung fu outfits), maybe more like the human fighters towards the end of the original Dragonball series.  Goku and Vegeta probably would have wiped out the Separtists in a few days.  Particularly Vegeta before the Buu saga, as he'd have no problem blowing up planets to speed up the process after finding out what utter wimps these Sith were in comparison to a Saiyan warrior; the guy was blowing up planets back when his Power Level wasn't in the tens of millions.  Hell, he'd probably laugh at the notion that the Empire needs a gigantic space station in order to pull what he can do with an offhand gesture.


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#195 Desslok

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 05:03 PM

Goku and Vegeta probably would have wiped out the Separtists in a few days. 

 

 

 

Yeah, but it would have taken 18 episodes of building up power to do so. (:


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#196 ErikB

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 06:22 PM

It works with Lone Wolf and Cub as well. 

 

A Jedi survives Order 66 and takes one of the younglings with him while he cuts bloody path of revenge across the galaxy.

 

lone_wolf_and_cub___sketch_by_thisismybo

 

Lone_Woof_and_Club.jpg

 

Ronin5.jpg

 

Last-Samurai-485x728.jpg

 

Speaking of which, this Vaders pretty Bad Ass.

 

samurai_vader_by_cheo36-d48l8pp.jpg

 


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#197 ErikB

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 06:30 PM

This is the life of a wondering Jedi swordsman in the days following the destruction of the order.

 

217774569_WK6Hb-XL-2.jpg

 

217774834_mEtPV-XL-2.jpg

 

217775098_wSnmQ-XL-2.jpg

 

217775335_6Yw8P-XL-2.jpg


Edited by ErikB, 15 December 2013 - 06:31 PM.

If you want a picture of the Empire, imagine a jackboot stamping on a beings face - forever.

#198 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 04:37 PM

Desslok,

Original version, probably.  They did do an abridged series called Dragonball Kai that cut out a lot of the filler.  How much, you ask?

 

Let's put it this way.  It took DBZKai only half as many episodes to reach the end of the Cell Saga as the original version did.  And the biggest time waster (SSJ Goku vs. Frieza) got chopped down significantly, with a nod even given as to why Namek lasted more than "5 minutes.  Partly in that the planet was tougher than Frieza thought, and partially because he subconsciously wanted to test his mettle against a "legendary Super Saiyan" to see of all the hype was true.

 

Though as I've told others, DBZ isn't and never truly was a "fight anime" (in spite of establishing a lot of the tropes used in fight anime series)... it's actually Kabuki theater with a martial arts theme ;)


Edited by Donovan Morningfire, 16 December 2013 - 05:17 PM.

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#199 Jon D

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 05:14 PM

DBZK was a welcome change. I was shocked by the fact that the original arc was dealt with in about 12ish episodes. Originally, I think it took 26.
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#200 Chortles

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 12:12 AM

Oh, totally. But Jack has an entirely different feel. If anything, Luke would be the Jack of Star Wars, he just has a really intricate support network. At least at first. Once Vader proves the force users can't fly, it's more about the Rebels winning the war than Luke. He's still a hero, but not The Hero.

Food for thought: Episode VI rather neatly separates "the Rebels vs. the Empire" from "the Light Side vs. the Dark Side", not just in Luke splitting off from the Rebels on the forest moon because of his fear of being an unwilling beacon (along the lines of what you described), but also the fact that Luke, Vader, and Palpatine's narrow focus on their individual contention essentially "puts them out of the fight" as far as the ground and space battles of Endor.

 

(In the Thrawn Trilogy, the titular Grand Admiral voiced to Pellaeon the possibility that Palpatine had a mental effect on the Imperial forces' effectiveness at Endor only for it to collapse with his death, but EU canon is that Grand Admiral Nial Declann was the one, both in place of and on behalf of the otherwise-occupied Palpatine.)


 

Well, according to George Lucas, the Empire is intended to be bad guys and the Sith to be objectively evil.

Fans proceeded to immediately disregard his bull and have fun with the Empire and make believable characters left and right, and come up with sensible rationalizations east, west, north and south.

 





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