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Stats for Cyberwolves?


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#1 LordBlades

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 02:13 AM

Have there been any mechanics published anywhere for them?

 

I'm preparing a Space Wolf Iron Priest, and I'm also tentatively interested in a cyberwolf follower.

 

I've found stats for regular Fenrisian Wolves, and worst case scenario I could just add come cybernetic enhancements to one, but I'm interested to know whether there's anything in the books about them.



#2 Fgdsfg

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 02:37 AM

Never even heard of it it, so I doubt there are any stats for it.

I might be wrong, of course, but I haven't seen any, is all I can say.

I would look up stats for Cyber-Mastiffs for inspiration, but ultimately I think you'll have to homebrew something, essentially throwing bionics on your Wolf.


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#3 Korvis

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:46 AM

There would also have to be modifiers for size as a Cyberwolf is bigger in size than a Fenresian Wolf.  Strength would be increased naturally before the cyber enhancements.  Rending would be increased as well (Penetration on Attack), Knock Down should be considered as an "automatic" result of contact with an opponent regardless of charging or swatting with a paw/claw.  A Charging attack might also include "Stun" as an automatic result as well.  Implant(s) for communication/control would grant a higher level of control than Beastmaster as it is a "mount" (Cavalry) unlike a Fenresian Wolf.

 

All these (and more I'm sure) should be considered for eventual stats and costs via Requisition, Experience and/or Renown.  Potential baseline stats as well as level/upgrades if you want to make a thorough effort in creating such.  Please update for C&C as you make progress.



#4 LordBlades

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 02:15 AM

There would also have to be modifiers for size as a Cyberwolf is bigger in size than a Fenresian Wolf.  Strength would be increased naturally before the cyber enhancements.  Rending would be increased as well (Penetration on Attack), Knock Down should be considered as an "automatic" result of contact with an opponent regardless of charging or swatting with a paw/claw.  A Charging attack might also include "Stun" as an automatic result as well.  Implant(s) for communication/control would grant a higher level of control than Beastmaster as it is a "mount" (Cavalry) unlike a Fenresian Wolf.

 

All these (and more I'm sure) should be considered for eventual stats and costs via Requisition, Experience and/or Renown.  Potential baseline stats as well as level/upgrades if you want to make a thorough effort in creating such.  Please update for C&C as you make progress.

 Thanks for the tips. Will update if I get to play this character (it's still undecided what a few other group members ill play, so I might have to do squad leader instead)



#5 Korvis

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:56 PM

Also think of the increases to "Accute Senses" regarding detection ranges of hearing, smell AND Sight due to ocular implants as well as just being a bigger beast.

 

I play a Wolf Scout and am aiming for a Fenresian Wolf at some point.  I am interested in the progress and eventual outcome of your endeavor, even though I don't see my character ever riding a Cyberwolf mount.



#6 LordBlades

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 12:30 PM

Most likely no cyberwolves for me at this point :( Soembody else will be the group techmarine and I'll be rolling an ultrasmurf squad leader.

 

Oh well...next time. :D



#7 Fgdsfg

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 12:52 PM

Most likely no cyberwolves for me at this point :( Soembody else will be the group techmarine and I'll be rolling an ultrasmurf squad leader.

 

Oh well...next time. :D

Why ultrasmurf? I have to ask, because you call them ultrasmurfs, suggesting you like them about as much as I do, yet you choose to play one.

Not saying you shouldn't - I'm just asking. :P


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#8 LordBlades

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 01:43 PM

 

Most likely no cyberwolves for me at this point :( Soembody else will be the group techmarine and I'll be rolling an ultrasmurf squad leader.

 

Oh well...next time. :D

Why ultrasmurf? I have to ask, because you call them ultrasmurfs, suggesting you like them about as much as I do, yet you choose to play one.

Not saying you shouldn't - I'm just asking. :P

 

 Primary reason was mechanical. They make the best squad leaders, don't they?

 

I had this cool Space Wolf Iron Priest idea, but another player asked me if I was cool with him playing the techmarine of the group. These DW characters are an addition to an ongoing (mostly RT) game, and there is currently an Iron Hands Techmarine NPC aboard the group's ship that this guy likes and wants to take over as his PC, and the DM likes the idea too. So I played around in my head with several concepts (Space Wolves and other chapters) and none satisfied me in the 'I want to play this now!' way.

 

Since Squad Leader is the role most likely nobody in my group will be willing to fill, I've decided to do that. Since I had no clear character concept beyond Squad Leader and Ultrasmurfs are the best squad leaders I know (haven't found anything that comes close, if somebody did, please share :P ) I decided to go with an Ultrasmurf.

 

Meanwhile I've also managed to come up with a decent story  that I think fits an Ultrasmurf (them being the most compassionate and close to the common citizen marine): This guy's been practically living in his own big soap bubble of joy until he got sent to Deathwatch. All the worlds he had seen were Ultramar and battlefieds. Battlefields are supposed to be bad, and Ultramar was good. Now that he's been sent in the Imperium at large and he sees how bad it really is for pretty much everyone that's not ruling class, he's both disappointed and furious. I plan to have him grow increasingly disgruntled with the direction the Imperium is going and, if the opportunity presents itself. Among of the craziest stuff that crossed my mind for this guy to do if he grows desperate enough is stealing Roboute Guilliman from Macragge and taking him to either Tau or Eldar to heal him (group has good relations to both).

 

And yes, I don't like Ultramarines that much. I find them somewhat cheesy and lacking in flavor. Most likely because they are the 'Space Marine blueprint' so to say. Every other chapter is Space Marine+something more, but not the Uttramarines, they're just Space Marines.



#9 Korvis

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 01:47 PM

Space Wolves or Salamanders....Smurfs are NOT compassionate.....


Edited by Korvis, 26 November 2013 - 04:14 PM.


#10 Brother Anselm

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 02:02 PM

If you want compassionate and people friendly then go Salamander, they live and interact with their own family and clan. Well known for actions that put the welfare of innocent civilians first.



#11 Fgdsfg

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 02:24 PM

[...] (them being the most compassionate and close to the common citizen marine) [...]


Stopped reading there. In a sea of choices including the Salamanders and the Space Wolves, you thought "Ultramarines" when thinking "compassionate and close to the common citizen"?

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#12 LordBlades

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 02:38 PM

 

[...] (them being the most compassionate and close to the common citizen marine) [...]

Stopped reading there. In a sea of choices including the Salamanders and the Space Wolves, you thought "Ultramarines" when thinking "compassionate and close to the common citizen"?

 

 You're right about Salamanders, they probably fit the story best (and Into the Fires of Battle looks like a pretty strong squad ability...hmm <_< ), but Space Wolves? You've really made me curious here. I haven't come across anything in the fluff to suggest Space Wolves are more compassionate than the average Space Marine chapter, so I would like to know more :P

 

And Ultramarines may not be the 'most' compassionate chapter, but they do seem better in that regard than most others IMO.



#13 Fgdsfg

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 03:03 PM

You're right about Salamanders, they probably fit the story best (and Into the Fires of Battle looks like a pretty strong squad ability...hmm <_< ), but Space Wolves? You've really made me curious here. I haven't come across anything in the fluff to suggest Space Wolves are more compassionate than the average Space Marine chapter, so I would like to know more :P
 
And Ultramarines may not be the 'most' compassionate chapter, but they do seem better in that regard than most others IMO.


Out of all the chapters I know anything about, the Ultramarines strike me as the ones that would be the most pragmatic, and most likely to just shrug when mundane humans have to be sacrificed. There's worse chapters, but the Ultramarines always struck me as rather cold.

About the Space Wolves, I guess... "compassionate" might be the wrong word, but they are staunchly anti-authoritarian and amongst the least monastic-order-of-knights, drinking, eating and farting like mere mortals. Perhaps not as much compassionate as empathetic or relateable, I guess.

http://wh40k.lexican..._Wolves#Culture

The fact that they even cared what happened to the civilians after the First War for Armageddon speaks volumes.


Edited by Fgdsfg, 26 November 2013 - 03:03 PM.

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#14 LordBlades

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 02:01 AM

 

You're right about Salamanders, they probably fit the story best (and Into the Fires of Battle looks like a pretty strong squad ability...hmm <_< ), but Space Wolves? You've really made me curious here. I haven't come across anything in the fluff to suggest Space Wolves are more compassionate than the average Space Marine chapter, so I would like to know more :P
 
And Ultramarines may not be the 'most' compassionate chapter, but they do seem better in that regard than most others IMO.


Out of all the chapters I know anything about, the Ultramarines strike me as the ones that would be the most pragmatic, and most likely to just shrug when mundane humans have to be sacrificed. There's worse chapters, but the Ultramarines always struck me as rather cold.

About the Space Wolves, I guess... "compassionate" might be the wrong word, but they are staunchly anti-authoritarian and amongst the least monastic-order-of-knights, drinking, eating and farting like mere mortals. Perhaps not as much compassionate as empathetic or relateable, I guess.

http://wh40k.lexican..._Wolves#Culture

The fact that they even cared what happened to the civilians after the First War for Armageddon speaks volumes.

 

That's really interesting, thanks. I get most of my info form the 40k wikia as I find the color scheme of Lexicanum a bit tiring,and they don't mention it it the Space Wolves article (They do it in the First War for Armageddon, apparently Space Wolves took it so badly it ended up with a space battle between them and the Inquisition over Fenris).

 

I view Ultramarines as more compassionate toward the common citizens in virtue of how the Realm of Ultramar, in which they have a direct implication in governing is described (from the wiki):

 

After the Horus Heresy all 11 worlds benefited from the improving reforms of Roboute Guilliman and its citizens are disciplined, productive and loyal. As a result, Ultramar is a wealthy stellar empire within the larger Imperium that knows little unrest and no rebellion - a somewhat unique distinction in the increasingly desperate days of the late 41st Millennium. The population live in sprawling cities, but these cities are surrounded by extensive farmlands and seas that teem with fish.

Each of Ultramar's worlds are self-sufficient in raw materials and food. Trade between the planets is active, and each planet has its specialties and delicacies. Each world is balanced as a society and also as an ecosystem - although composed of primarily industrial worlds, Ultramar has none of the nightmarish toxic wastelands that are common phenomena throughout the galaxy. It is therefore little wonder that many system governors and planetary lords across the Imperium regard Ultramar with an envious eye.

 

 

All in all, thanks for making me have a second look at Salamanders. I'm starting to think I can make a decent squad leader build for one :D



#15 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 06:16 AM

The ultramarines are exceptional tacticians and good politicians, and Ultramar is a 'model' imperial region thanks largely to their direct governance, but don't ever mistake them for "nice".

 

In so far as they're anything culturally, the Ultramarines are a mix of republican rome and the spartans. Right down to Ultramar having (I'm sure I remember from somewhere) the spartan tradition of overnight exposure of newborn children.

 

They're not actively callous, but then nor are a lot of chapters. Nevertheless, they do have a tendancy to hog the glory, intentionally or unintentionally*. The Fists are pretty widely respected by everyone (almost a unique feat in the Imperium!). The wolves can be...well, they like to think they're heroic. That's not exactly the same thing as caring and compassionate. They 'save' the guardsmen at Armageddon knowing full well that doing so will result in ten times that number of people who are genuinely innocent being murdered as a result, and they seem as bothered about personal honour as actually stopping people dying.

 

The salamanders are one of the few chapters I will genuinely agree with as compassionate.

 

 

*

"The sacrifice of the first company saved Macragge!"

"Err.....and the millions of Defence Auxillia guardsmen who died at Cold Steel Ridge breaking the assault's momentum? The arrival of most of the segmentum battlefleet that actually...you know....killed the hive fleet?"

"Shhh."



#16 BrotherHuitztli

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 06:27 AM

Any chapter can make a good squad leader. I've had a space wolf tactical, a blood angel Sanguinary priest and an ultramarine librarian who all functioned as good squad leaders. Doubly so for the UM due to some of the psy powers they get.



#17 Fgdsfg

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:55 AM

I view Ultramarines as more compassionate toward the common citizens in virtue of how the Realm of Ultramar, in which they have a direct implication in governing is described (from the wiki):
 
After the Horus Heresy all 11 worlds benefited from the improving reforms of Roboute Guilliman and its citizens are disciplined, productive and loyal. As a result, Ultramar is a wealthy stellar empire within the larger Imperium that knows little unrest and no rebellion - a somewhat unique distinction in the increasingly desperate days of the late 41st Millennium. The population live in sprawling cities, but these cities are surrounded by extensive farmlands and seas that teem with fish.
Each of Ultramar's worlds are self-sufficient in raw materials and food. Trade between the planets is active, and each planet has its specialties and delicacies. Each world is balanced as a society and also as an ecosystem - although composed of primarily industrial worlds, Ultramar has none of the nightmarish toxic wastelands that are common phenomena throughout the galaxy. It is therefore little wonder that many system governors and planetary lords across the Imperium regard Ultramar with an envious eye.


It's from the 5th Edition Ultramarines Codex, so I'd consider than Matt Ward Fanfiction. If you believe that, you might as well ignore all other chapters and the Emperor, and just adopt Rowboat Girlyman as your spiritual liege right away.
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#18 Brother Anselm

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 12:11 PM

Perhaps Mr Ward had a long term plan to awaken Guilliman from statis and turn him into the Emperor Regent. Mr Ward does seem to like his Ultramarines.



#19 LordBlades

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 03:41 PM

Perhaps Mr Ward had a long term plan to awaken Guilliman from statis and turn him into the Emperor Regent. Mr Ward does seem to like his Ultramarines.

 

Well, if he puts Failbaddon out of his misery in the process it wouldn't be that bad :P

 

I was unaware who Matt Ward was until half an hour ago when I googled it....and what I've read cannot be un-read. This guy really seems to be terrible.

 

 

Anyway, just for discussion's sake, since I've since then moved on from Ultrasmurfs to Salamanders for my squad leader (it fits story better, Artificer is an awesome talent, and their chapter attack pattern is likewise awesome), what's the take of other authors (if any talk about it, I have no clue) on the conditions on Ultramar?


Edited by LordBlades, 29 November 2013 - 03:42 PM.


#20 Annaamarth

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 02:13 AM

Good choice on Salamanders.  Also, more fire everywhere.

 

Regarding Space Wolves as compassionate... they are, at least insofar as any space viking could be.  They want to see people able to stand on their own two feet, but the Wolves really, really frown on things like slavery and tyranny, or needless death to no purpose.  If I recall correctly, the origin of the rivalry between the Wolves and the Dark Angels may stem from the fact that the Lion advanced his forces without orders or informing anyone else, leaving the Wolves vulnerable to a flanking counter-attack which killed many of the Space Wolves.

 

The Wolves also fought against the Inquisition after the first battle of Armageddon, attempting to save civilians from purges as the Inquisition sought to limit daemonic exposure to living citizens.  Suffice to say that the Space Wolves and the Inquisition do not always get along... especially not with the Ordo Hereticus or the Ordo Malleus.  Ordo Xenos isn't so bad- they don't purge civilians quite so often.


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