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Infection Tokens


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#1 The9ofSpades

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:27 PM

Hi everyone,
Looking for your opinions on the new Infection class for the OL that comes with The Trollfens expansion. I was playing a campaign with some friends over the weekend and the question came up as to whether or not the Infection tokens are discarded when a hero gets knocked out. As the OL naturally I wanted them to stay on.

My argument is that no where in the rules does it say that Infection tokens are conditions, the only thing that gets removed when a hero is knocked out are condition tokens. I believe they would work similarity to the hero's Champion Class Valor tokens, which the FAQ says stay on when a hero is knocked out.

Can any of you suggest as to why or why not these would get removed?

Cheers

#2 PlainWhiteBread

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:56 PM

They stay on the hero sheet, and are not counted as conditions.

We've been playing this way, and as a hero whose OL loves the Infector deck, I don't feel that it's unbalanced; not in the way Warlord is, anyway.


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#3 Radish

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 02:40 PM

They stay on the hero sheet, and are not counted as conditions.

We've been playing this way, and as a hero whose OL loves the Infector deck, I don't feel that it's unbalanced; not in the way Warlord is, anyway.

 

Yeah I believe this is correct.

 

On a similar note, if a hero with the prophet token is knocked out, can that be discarded before he or she is revived in order to gain 1 life and then get him or herself up?



#4 Steve-O

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 08:21 PM

The9ofSpades, on 19 Nov 2013 - 2:27 PM, said:
Hi everyone,
Looking for your opinions on the new Infection class for the OL that comes with The Trollfens expansion. I was playing a campaign with some friends over the weekend and the question came up as to whether or not the Infection tokens are discarded when a hero gets knocked out. As the OL naturally I wanted them to stay on.

They are definitely not a Condition. For one thing, they aren't named as a condition in the rules (I know, semantics.) Also, if they were a Condition then you could only ever have one such token at a time, because Conditions don't stack. Seems to me there are some abilities that assume more than one token is possible.

As to whether or not they get discarded when a hero is KO'd... I suppose someone could argue it's vague, but I'm inclined to treat them the same as valour (not removed.)

Radish, on 19 Nov 2013 - 3:40 PM, said:
On a similar note, if a hero with the prophet token is knocked out, can that be discarded before he or she is revived in order to gain 1 life and then get him or herself up?

No. To discard the insight token, the hero is using one of the prophet's hero abilities, albiet an ability that can be used by any hero who has the token. KO'd heroes cannot use ANY skills or abilities.

#5 Kunzite

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:51 PM

Since we are talking tokens:

 

I am then to guess that hexer tokens, on the same note, are not conditions and thus "Iron Skin" is useless in the face of them.

 

Iron Skin- This monster is not affected by conditions.


"Bide your time and hold out hope."

~Count of Monte Cristo

 

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#6 The9ofSpades

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 11:00 PM

Since we are talking tokens:
 
I am then to guess that hexer tokens, on the same note, are not conditions and thus "Iron Skin" is useless in the face of them.
 
Iron Skin- This monster is not affected by conditions.


I would say definitely not. The hex tokens don't directly have an effect unless used with a skill card. Conditions have their own effect regardless of the skills possessed by any one hero.

#7 MadBat

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 01:19 AM

They are definitely not a Condition. For one thing, they aren't named as a condition in the rules (I know, semantics.) Also, if they were a Condition then you could only ever have one such token at a time, because Conditions don't stack. Seems to me there are some abilities that assume more than one token is possible.

As to whether or not they get discarded when a hero is KO'd... I suppose someone could argue it's vague, but I'm inclined to treat them the same as valour (not removed.)

No. To discard the insight token, the hero is using one of the prophet's hero abilities, albiet an ability that can be used by any hero who has the token. KO'd heroes cannot use ANY skills or abilities.

Well, the prophet does have a specific skill that will invalidate what you wrote.

The skill is Lifeline and it says it can be exhausted to discard the toke from a hero that would otherwise be downed.

This will make that hero recover 1hp, no down, no OL card draw.


Edited by MadBat, 20 November 2013 - 01:21 AM.


#8 Steve-O

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 07:46 AM

 

No. To discard the insight token, the hero is using one of the prophet's hero abilities, albiet an ability that can be used by any hero who has the token. KO'd heroes cannot use ANY skills or abilities.


Well, the prophet does have a specific skill that will invalidate what you wrote.
The skill is Lifeline and it says it can be exhausted to discard the toke from a hero that would otherwise be downed.
This will make that hero recover 1hp, no down, no OL card draw.

 


I think we're talking about two different things.

I'm talking about a hero who is already KO'd but happens to have the insight token on him.  The Prophet's base skill (Soothing Insight) allows any hero who has the insight token to discard it during their own turn to heal.  This is an ability which is used by the hero who wants to heal, even though it's printed on one of the Prophet's skill cards. The hero in question is KO'd and therefore cannot use any abilities.  So he cannot discard the insight token and heal himself. That's the question Radish asked, to which I was responding.

You're talking about a situation where the hero is NOT KO'd yet, but is about to become KO'd. Lifeline is used in response to this situation to prevent the hero from ever becoming KO'd. Yes, this would be allowed because the Prophet himself (the hero who is using the ability) is not KO'd.  I would even argue that the Prophet could use this skill on himself if he had the insight token himself, but the key point to remember in that case is that the Prophet is not KO'd yet.  Lifeline triggers when the hero would become defeated.  As in, he's not actually defeated, because Lifeline saves him.

 

If the Prophet was already KO'd, he would NOT be able to use Lifeline to save himself or anyone else, because he can't use abilities while he is KO'd.

Nothing I said is invalid, you're comparing apples to oranges.






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