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So how about this bomber list


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#1 TheRealStarkiller

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 01:11 PM

Gamma Bomber 18

Assault Missile 5

Seismic charge 2

 

x 4

 

= 100

 

------

 

This gives a potential splash damage of 8!

 

 

What do you think this list would perform against the most common lists like Tie swarm, XXXX, XXBB and HSF?


                 Sir, rebel transports sighted \                              / Affirmative.                                                           

   (-o-)  (-o-)    (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)    (-o-)  (-o-) 

 Excellent! Gamma wing, prepare for torpedo run. We'll provide cover.

     |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   (<o>)   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   


#2 nimdabew

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 01:27 PM

Jonus to replace one of the bombers. 


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#3 LeoHowler

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 01:30 PM

This could work extremely well on TIE Swarms, obviously, but as for XXBB? Ehhhh... It could also be hell to be pitted against an A-Wing heavy squad though. I'd change one or two of the Assault Missiles out for either homing or cluster. Also, there's no pilot skill here, so you could easily get picked off one by one by more skilled pilots. It seems okay, for swarms, but once there's something a bit more weighty I see it falling apart.


~Remember Alderaan~

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Imperial Navy: 5 TIE Fighters, 1 TIE Bomber, 2 TIE Interceptors, 1 TIE Advance x1, 1 Lambda Class Shuttle, 3 Firespray 31, 1 TIE Defender

Black Sun Private Fleet: Coming soon~


#4 DraconPyrothayan

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 04:24 PM

4 bomber is tough, but do-able.

You've elected to go with Gamma, which is a good decision: level 4 pilots will get their target locks and drop their bombs more accurately and often than level 2s.

 

Seismic Mines are astonishing, as they're essentially free damage. This gives you excellence against swarms.
For that reason, I don't necessarily think you NEED the Assault missiles, as you've got the bombs that give you strength against the same thing.

Now that we've got 20 points to spend, let's think about its strengths and weaknesses.

 

  • It's great against swarms, as your Bombs improve with the number of ships you're facing. The fact that you'll out-level them also gives you greater survivability, as you won't take damage from ships the turn they're destroyed.
  • It's excellent against Biggs fleets, as the bombs will bypass his natural ability.

 

  • It's weak against 3-damage ships, particularly with improved accuracy, such as Gunner.
  • It's weak against Ions, as they prevent you from dropping your bombs.
  • It's weak against Crit-Heavy fleets, as you have lots of hull to accrue them.
  • It's weak against highly-survivable fleets if you're firing with your 2 main-guns.
  • It's weak against a high-level Alpha-Strike fleet, as you're only rolling 2 evasion dice.

 

How do we plug the holes? Well, missiles of any sort will help you pick off your high-value targets (such as 3-damage ships with Gunner, Crit-Boosted ships, and Highly-Survivable ships). Now the question becomes which missiles to use?

  • Cluster Missiles: At Range 1-2, and going up against their evasion dice twice, this is only good if you boost one of your pilots to Jonus. If you decide to do so, these become potentially devastating. If it's a High-Survival fleet based on HP rather than on Evasion, these are particularly nice. Not so good against 4x Interceptors with PtL and Stealth who focus and evade every turn, though.
  • Concussion Missiles: Range 2-3, 4 Dice, and you can change 1 Blank to a Hit. If you can manage to focus alongside the required target lock, the only way you're NOT rolling 4 Hits/Crits is if you roll 2 or more blanks! (Odds of rolling blanks for this missile= (3^X)*(number of variations of blank locations)/8^4, where X is the number of blanks you'll get, minus 1 blank for the Concussion to Hit conversion). In the real world, though, you rarely get the luxury unless you're going with Push the Limit or another way to get multiple actions in a turn. Then, we'd adjust the above formula to count Focuses as Blanks, and find that the odds of damage are still pretty darned good. King of the 4 pointers.
  • Assault Missiles: Essentially a standard missile with a Seismic Charge attached. As you've already got the Charges, you don't need to double up.
  • Homing Missiles: Essentially a standard missile, except A) They cannot dodge with Evade tokens, and B) you MAINTAIN YOUR TARGET LOCK, probably using it to re-roll your dice in this attack. As each attack die naturally has a 50/50 shot of landing as a Hit/Crit vs a Focus/Blank, re-rolling it gives you the same odds as though you were Focused during the attack as well, with better benefits if you wind up not needing it. King of the 5 pointers.

 

Now, something else to consider is Captain Jonus, as his bonus lends heavy weight to your Alpha Strike. As he only costs 4 more points than a Gamma, that's easily bought by equipping your bombers with one of the 4 costed missiles, or a mix of the two. Remember, his bonus does not apply to himself, nor does it apply to the bombs, so this might not be his ideal fleet, but it's still something to consider. 

 

That leads us to 2 final fleet-builds, one of which can be modified quite a bit.

 

==========================================

 

4x Gamma Squadron Pilot

+ Seismic Charges

+ Homing Missiles

[25 Each]

 

 

==========================================

 

3x Gamma Squadron Pilot

+ Seismic Charges

+ Concussion/Cluster Missiles

[24 Each]

 

Captain Jonus

+ Seismic Charges

+ Concussion/Cluster Missiles

[28]

 

==========================================

 

Hope this helps!


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#5 TheRealStarkiller

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 04:24 PM

Gammas have a PS value of 4. Should be fine enough for a decent alpha strike with all missiles at once. And for defence 1 ships like the B-Wing you don't even need to focus to score a hit (and trigger the splash damage).

Maybe there is a problem vs. ace pilots and high defence ships ...

 

So how about this:

 

Krassis Trelix 36

HLC 7

Seismic 2

Assault missile 5

 

Gamma Bomber 18

Assault Missile 5

Seismic charge 2

 

Gamma Bomber 18

Assault Missile 5

Seismic charge 2

 

 

This would give you a Firespray as a big bomber

 

@DraconPyrothayan

 

I like your analysis. What do you think about using proton bombs?


Edited by TheRealStarkiller, 18 November 2013 - 04:28 PM.

                 Sir, rebel transports sighted \                              / Affirmative.                                                           

   (-o-)  (-o-)    (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)    (-o-)  (-o-) 

 Excellent! Gamma wing, prepare for torpedo run. We'll provide cover.

     |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   (<o>)   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   


#6 DraconPyrothayan

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 04:39 PM

@DraconPyrothayan

 

I like your analysis. What do you think about using proton bombs?

I absolutely love them. Getting a Crit early game underneath shields is absolutely astonishing. In one game, I used it and pulled 2 munition failures...against Jan Ors and one of her HLC based Blue Squadron buddies.
One can potentially 1-shot an entire fleet of A-Wings, and two together have pretty good odds to 2-shot any small-based ship in the game (Two chances to get your 7/33 odds of a Direct Hit!), excepting Y-Wings (which would survive 2x Direct Hits!, annoyingly), and you can potentially do it to every ship your opponent is fielding.

 

It's not the best option for THIS fleet, however, as you'd only have 8 points left over. You could go with 4x Scimitar Squaddies with a 4-point Missile and Protons, but at that point I'd rather ditch the Protons for a 5th bomber with a Missile. However, if you're running 2 or 3 bombers as part of a Swarm, it's DEFINITELY worth the pick-up!


Edited by DraconPyrothayan, 18 November 2013 - 04:40 PM.


#7 LeoHowler

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 09:57 PM

Heh, I'm liking this thread... it's really making me rethink the usefulness of my bomber. :3


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~Remember Alderaan~

Alliance Fleet: 4 X-Wings, 3 Y-Wings, 4 A-Wings, 3 B-Wings, 2 HWK-290, 1 YT-1300, , 3 Z-95's, 2 E-Wings, 1 GR-75

Imperial Navy: 5 TIE Fighters, 1 TIE Bomber, 2 TIE Interceptors, 1 TIE Advance x1, 1 Lambda Class Shuttle, 3 Firespray 31, 1 TIE Defender

Black Sun Private Fleet: Coming soon~


#8 Rodent Mastermind

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:03 PM

I think you are going to have some issues getting the TLs on for the first attack of the game as you have a fairly low PS on the Gammas (not awful with PS4, but a bit low). I personally like running either Howlrunner with Squad Leader (so they can pass an action at PS 8 over to a Gamma after the enemy has moved most of their models, also allows you to get one ship with TL and Focus on your Alpha Strike). The other option I quite like is Jendon with ST-321 (You can use 1 moves for the first couple of turns so when you get to the enemy you have all your TLs already gained)

 

Both options allow you to get off at least 1 TL + Focus shot. And Jendon can let you get off 3 in the first engagement.


Edited by Rodent Mastermind, 18 November 2013 - 10:12 PM.


#9 oneway

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:07 PM

Bombers are awesome.... admittedly I think I like best the 3x Gamma and Jonus build, built a similar one myself.

Edited by oneway, 18 November 2013 - 10:08 PM.

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#10 The_Brown_Bomber

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:34 PM

i think the Gammas r a good call. scimitars will struggle to get away a target locked attacks against most targets because they have to rely on the target moving before they target lock. Gammas should be able to move up and get the job done imo.

i actually think against tie swarms a bomber list is going to struggle a bit -  tie-fighters have 4 agility dice on defense and will be hard to pin with ur alpha strike. has anyone reading this had experience with this matchup?


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#11 Rodent Mastermind

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:37 PM

 

 

i think the Gammas r a good call. scimitars will struggle to get away a target locked attacks against most targets because they have to rely on the target moving before they target lock. Gammas should be able to move up and get the job done imo.

i actually think against tie swarms a bomber list is going to struggle a bit -  tie-fighters have 4 agility dice on defense and will be hard to pin with ur alpha strike. has anyone reading this had experience with this matchup?

 

 

 

 

Why 4 dice? Evade actions? ... you don't get a bonus green dice at range 3 with secondary Weapons. Assault Missles also make a mess of them.


Edited by Rodent Mastermind, 18 November 2013 - 10:38 PM.

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#12 DraconPyrothayan

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:58 PM

 

 

 

 

 

i think the Gammas r a good call. scimitars will struggle to get away a target locked attacks against most targets because they have to rely on the target moving before they target lock. Gammas should be able to move up and get the job done imo.

i actually think against tie swarms a bomber list is going to struggle a bit -  tie-fighters have 4 agility dice on defense and will be hard to pin with ur alpha strike. has anyone reading this had experience with this matchup?

 

 

Why 4 dice? Evade actions? ... you don't get a bonus green dice at range 3 with secondary Weapons. Assault Missles also make a mess of them.

 

As do Seismic Charges and Proton Bombs, and you've got enough natural survivability to trim them down to a fair fight regardless.



#13 Hrathen

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 12:16 AM

If you are doing a bomber list you have to take Jonus. Don't give him any missiles, bombs or torpedoes if you need the points. Re-rolling 2 dice is great. It means you don't need Homing-Missiles (and if you are playing against the Rebellion you don't want them). Cluster Missiles are great!
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#14 Hrathen

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 12:21 AM

Here is my recommended list

Jonus

Scimitar Pilot + Cluster Missiles + Concussion Missiles x3

That leaves you with 6 more points.

If you think you will be facing a swarm change the Concussion Missiles to Assault Missiles
Elusive on Jonus is probably a good idea too. (his starting agility is too low for a stealth device)
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#15 TheRealStarkiller

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:14 AM

Lets try to stick with the Gammas first.

I like the idea having a higher PS than Academies, Obsidian, Rookies, prototypes and greens, blues, and so on

It is also likely that you face PS4 enemy like the Daggers - in this case it is important that you don't have the initiative!

 

When we add Jonus to the list, we basically trade an assault missile and a seismic charge for a better chance to hit for the remaining 3 assault missiles. Adding SL to Jonus further enhances the chances of one assault missile.

 

Captain Jonus
Squad Leader
25 points

Gamma Squadron Pilot #1
Assault Missiles, Seismic Charges
25 points

Gamma Squadron Pilot #2
Assault Missiles, Seismic Charges
25 points

Gamma Squadron Pilot #3
Assault Missiles, Seismic Charges

 

= 99 points

 

And this is the problem in this list - not only we lose a potential splash damage of 2 - we also get initiative, which we don't want to.

To solve the initiative problem we could give jonus an upgrade worth 3 points (and get rid of SL)

but what would this be?

 

Proximity Mines? - im not a fan of this.

Daredevil? - probably not

Push the limit? - for TL and focus in the same round? . well

Marksmanship? - no

Stealth Device? - maybe

 

Maybe just giving jonus a seismic and determination, so he can't lose his ability.

Or maybe . just trading jonus in for another assault miss in a gamma ...


                 Sir, rebel transports sighted \                              / Affirmative.                                                           

   (-o-)  (-o-)    (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)    (-o-)  (-o-) 

 Excellent! Gamma wing, prepare for torpedo run. We'll provide cover.

     |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   (<o>)   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   


#16 TheRealStarkiller

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:29 AM

As you can see - i like my bombers actually carring a bomb. And I think assault missiles working pretty well together with seismic charges while the don't neccesarily work as wel together with proton bombs, if your target used to have shields.

 

So, if you intend to use proton bombs, you probably don't want or don't need further warheads on your bombers. on the one hand you lose the alpha strike - on the other hand you make your bombers a less attractive target - assuming there are other ships in your list.

 

So maybe a list with 2 ace Interceptors and 2 Bombers with proton bombs .?.


                 Sir, rebel transports sighted \                              / Affirmative.                                                           

   (-o-)  (-o-)    (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)    (-o-)  (-o-) 

 Excellent! Gamma wing, prepare for torpedo run. We'll provide cover.

     |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   (<o>)   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   


#17 swampthing

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 02:05 AM

You could swap one seismic for a proximity or drop a seismic and up another seismic to a proton bomb, or as you have squad leader swap an assault for an Adv proton as you already cover a lot of splash damage. This all ressults in 100pts

#18 TheRealStarkiller

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 02:15 AM

I also am a fan of symmetry


                 Sir, rebel transports sighted \                              / Affirmative.                                                           

   (-o-)  (-o-)    (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)    (-o-)  (-o-) 

 Excellent! Gamma wing, prepare for torpedo run. We'll provide cover.

     |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   (<o>)   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   


#19 Rodent Mastermind

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 02:22 AM

You could have symmetry just put the one with the different load out in the middle and Jonus behind... Look perfect Symmetry.



#20 TheRealStarkiller

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 02:27 AM

;)


                 Sir, rebel transports sighted \                              / Affirmative.                                                           

   (-o-)  (-o-)    (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)     (-o-o-)    (-o-)  (-o-) 

 Excellent! Gamma wing, prepare for torpedo run. We'll provide cover.

     |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   (<o>)   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   





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