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Using Social Skills instead of Influence


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#21 Adeptus Ineptus

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 02:35 AM

I never had the players return to their old lives and I can't see them taking it seriously if I did (to be fair they ended up fleeing a Slaught on a gulf cart and didn't take that too seriously).
I don't want to see players getting all the best weapons at the start of the game but the Inquisition giving it's people some access to stuff is a must.


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#22 Simsum

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:59 AM

These individuals were essentially "On loan" either short or long term to the Inquisition. They were not members unless they became Interrogators or Inquisitors themselves. It's not quite the same as being members of a Dynasty, the IG or even a Kill team of the Deathwatch. It's more "Individual based" and I think I prefer it that way.


I guess we disagree rather a lot on this point.

More to the point, though, the Influence/Subtle mechanics doesn't do spycraft-type stuff or offer mission, Cell or other organisational framework.

Here's a pretty simple question with a pretty simple answer: how does v2.3 handle infiltrating one of the Adepta? It doesn't.

Far more than the other lines, DH would benefit immensely from a formalised system for running mission-relevant aspects of factions of all kinds, as well as an overarching framework for running missions.
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#23 Radwraith

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 01:37 PM

 

These individuals were essentially "On loan" either short or long term to the Inquisition. They were not members unless they became Interrogators or Inquisitors themselves. It's not quite the same as being members of a Dynasty, the IG or even a Kill team of the Deathwatch. It's more "Individual based" and I think I prefer it that way.


I guess we disagree rather a lot on this point.

More to the point, though, the Influence/Subtle mechanics doesn't do spycraft-type stuff or offer mission, Cell or other organisational framework.

Here's a pretty simple question with a pretty simple answer: how does v2.3 handle infiltrating one of the Adepta? It doesn't.

Far more than the other lines, DH would benefit immensely from a formalised system for running mission-relevant aspects of factions of all kinds, as well as an overarching framework for running missions.

 

I don't disagree with you on this. The two points are not mutually exclusive. I figured my "going home" comment would spur some controversy but that's taking it out of context. I recognize that a character is FAR more likely to die horribly or ascend to some other organization then go home but the way the background is written that's also a possibility. (It's called "washing out" in the military.) My original point was that in DH1 the characters represent the "Everyman" who finds themselves dealing with extraordinary circumstances! That is something I want to see preserved! It also allowed Gm's a baseline for what "normal" people looked like. I have in fact used DH characters in "off setting" games where they were members of a RT's crew or some such and the Inquisition was not involved at all! I'm not actually advocating for hordeing thrones like gold pieces or every character being released after every mission. (Although I did once run a game where the Inquisitor maintain an Acolyte dossier of the player characters sort of like the old "mission impossible series!) I like the idea of a framework for Inquisitorial cells but even in DH1 this Idea did not occur until later supplements. I AM advocating the idea that DH remain the "baseline" from which the rest of the line springs from. ;)


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#24 Lynata

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 06:24 PM

Although I did once run a game where the Inquisitor maintain an Acolyte dossier of the player characters sort of like the old "mission impossible series!

 

I had to "like" your post just for the Mission Impossible reference. I actually just watched the series on Netflix. Very classy. :D

 

Still, I guess the issue of how fitting this seems is very much a matter of personal interpretation. To me, the issue of travel times and the nature of the various character types' profession, as well as the original material on Inquisitorial retinues just messes too much with such an approach - not to mention that I wouldn't still call someone who has been recruited by the Inquisition even once an "Everyman".

 

That's not to say that an "acceptable" condition could not be created, such as a campaign limited to characters whose background would allow them to slip easily in and out of society at any time without being missed (and thus attracting unwanted attention). :)


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#25 Simsum

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 06:23 AM

I AM advocating the idea that DH remain the "baseline" from which the rest of the line springs from. ;)


I'm sorry, I was evidently being very unclear. I too want DH characters to at least start out as ordinary individuals, and preferably to stay ordinary. Indeed, if it was up to me to design DH2e, characters wouldn't grow much at all beyond the baseline in terms of personal ability. But then, to me DH isn't the sort of game where there's any reason PCs should end up being able to out-melee a Khorne Berserker.

What I'm asking for isn't super-powers at all, but a framework for running mission-based campaigns involving stealth, infiltration, intrigue and so on, as well as a framework for running factions in such games, including factions the PCs work for, pretend to work for, or establish themselves.

#26 Adeptus Ineptus

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 12:39 PM

I'm fine with players becoming highly skilled after all there is a need for death squads as well as spys.



#27 Lynata

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 12:44 PM

Indeed, if it was up to me to design DH2e, characters wouldn't grow much at all beyond the baseline in terms of personal ability. But then, to me DH isn't the sort of game where there's any reason PCs should end up being able to out-melee a Khorne Berserker.

 

I can see where you're coming from, but in this case I'd recommend actually splitting DH into two different games - one for "street level" characters, for groups composed of hiver thugs and IG conscripts, and one for the actual TT-style Inquisitors and their highly specialised retinue of professional Assassins, Psykers, Battle Sisters, Space Marines. There's lots of styles of investigation and combat for both, but shoehorning archetypes from the former into a low-power game would be very awkward indeed, either ending up with broken balance or seriously nerfed portrayals.

 

Personally, the Inquisition has never been about "low power" for me; I'm too familiar with GW's material to really buy into all the "lowlife scrub acolyte" stuff - so whilst I would enjoy a "low power" game in this product series, I'd rather have that be about something like, say, gang warfare in a hive, a la Necromunda. Shadowrun meets 40k, so to say.  :P


Edited by Lynata, 24 November 2013 - 12:45 PM.

current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#28 Adeptus Ineptus

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 03:46 PM

If we want a this we need some way to stop Minmaxing with xp. I recommend a tier system with Tier 1 being DH1/OW starting level, when players reach the level where they should be Tier 2 they can buy a Tier 2 package they meet the prerequisites for which can give stuff like True Faith, more aptitudes or anything else that fits. I see Tier 2 as veteran storm troopers, Sisters of battle, IG Captains and other elite individuals and Tier 3 as Inquisitors and other Peers of the Imperium.
On a side note would anyone object to having Fate Points rolled at the start of each session (d5+/-homeworld) and each tier giving +1 to the role? I know we would need a new way to cheat death but it would mean that thee one player to get a 10 or a 1 on their roll would not have that for the whole campaign and temporary Fate Points could be given out for stuff like killing a Master.



#29 Tom Cruise

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 07:13 PM

I'd rather just make everyone start with three fate points and avoid rolling entirely.


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#30 pathstrider

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:37 PM

Interestingly, there is a talent in version 2 that allows you to sub Fel for requisition tests.




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