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#41 Lilian

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:43 AM

 

Yeah, the victory could help, for sure, excellent idea. I would still not play the card much, I think, but it would certainly make sense. The limit one per deck could also help - it would then be just as restricted as Black Arrow (and when you think about it, the Arrow surely cannot make more of a difference on a usual game).

I don't think that limit one per deck help because for the deck I see, the loop deck use one Will of the West

 

I don't like loop deck and I don't use them so I'm not an expert of them. But, they are a problem for the meetings and the tournaments.



#42 Ana

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 03:25 AM

Hmm, the deck you list does use 2 copies of Will of the West. And in any loops it is easier to have two, instead of one and a Dwarven Tomb or Map of Eärnil. Otherwise, I totally agree, we need get rid of such, somehow.



#43 Tracker1

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 03:53 AM

Wow, thanks for the lesson. Not sure i'll try it but i'm real curious to see how these decks work.
One thing I am not sure of is, if a scenario has 3 or more quest cards, how can you complete all of them in one turn, since progress from one quest card in not carried over to the next card after quest resolution? Would it not be at least one round per quest card?

They use Ravens of the Mountain, as I said above.

There is only 1 copy between both decks. I don't see how it can be played enough times before the first quest phase to complete 3 scenario cards for something like 30+ progress tokens, and when it is played the top card of the encounter deck might not have any threat.

Still baffled, but sounds boring, and i thought Outlands was broken!

Just out of curiosity, and back to overpowered decks.

Has anyone beat Battle of Laketown without having one of the following in one of your decks. I'm talking solo one hand play here.

1. Dain
2. Frodo
3. Outlands

If so what type of deck did you use? Would you consider it overpowered?
I beat it with one other deck once, but never with the consistency that the 3 mentioned above have.
'At last' said Aragorn 'Here are the tracks that we seek!'

#44 alogos

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 05:00 AM

I agree that "loops are the definition of boredom" and I think they must be eradicated from Lotr


Neo voice : Whoa. Déjà vu...
Gollum voice : What did you say?
 

There is only 1 copy between both decks. I don't see how it can be played enough times before the first quest phase to complete 3 scenario cards for something like 30+ progress tokens, and when it is played the top card of the encounter deck might not have any threat.

Still baffled, but sounds boring, and i thought Outlands was broken!


The aim is to draw all your cards, then you can play the raven hill/will of the west loop. If the first card of the encounter deck is bad, you can play The End Comes to shuffle the encounter deck.

To Lillian & Rouxxxor : told you to come to me for translation... (yeah, don't have the same acount name here and there) (why am I writting this in english ?) Bon, tu nous fais une vidéo pour quand rouxxxor ? je pense que "tour un" est pas utiliser tel quel en anglais.

 

I think "first turn" is more used than "turn one".

About "Chemin de great step" : "chemin de grand pas" in french, "grand pas" is the name of Strider in french version, the card is Strider's path.
Google traduction is fun.


Edited by alogos, 08 November 2013 - 05:01 AM.


#45 Emrad

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:52 PM

Okay can someone please tell me how do they make to work the new outland cards into the outland deck. I once tried doing a mono-leadership with lord of morthond and it failed terribly. I agree that outlands are overpowered but i think they depend too much on card draw (beravor) and there arent many cards to make a fully thematic outland deck like dwarves or noldor/silvan. I know another outland hero would be more power-breaking but i just dont like the feeling of mixing different factions.

 

Here's what I play with a friend :

 

LS Elven Outlands Control

Hero (3)
Elrond (SaF) x1
Eleanor (Core) x1
Glorfindel (FoS) x1


Ally (26)
Anfalas Herdsman (TSF) x3
Ethir Swordsman (TSF) x3
Hunter of Lamedon (HON) x3
Knights of the Swan (TSF) x3
Arwen Undomiel (TWitW) x3
Gandalf (Core) x3
Zigil Miner (KD) x3
Imladris Stargazer (FoS) x3
West Road Traveller (RtM) x2


Attachment (12)
Unexpected Courage (Core) x3
Light of Valinor (FoS) x2
Expert Treasure-hunter (OtD) x2
Ancient Mathom (AJtR) x2
Vilya (SaF) x2
Spare Hood and Cloak (OHaUH) x1


Event (12)
A Test of Will (Core) x3
Dwarven Tomb (Core) x3
The Galadhrim's Greeting (Core) x3
Hasty Stroke (Core) x3
 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

I don't play Asfaloth because my friend does.

This is a really good questing and support deck, it does a crazy amount of quest, and even attack towards the end game. The curve progression is really good.



#46 Rouxxxor

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 03:59 PM


Has anyone beat Battle of Laketown without having one of the following in one of your decks. I'm talking solo one hand play here.

1. Dain
2. Frodo
3. Outlands

If so what type of deck did you use? Would you consider it overpowered?
I beat it with one other deck once, but never with the consistency that the 3 mentioned above have..

You forget in your listing best Hero ever: Glorfindel (the spirit one). I have something like 50% of winnning the two following decks:

[Solo] GEB - Glorfindel / Elrond / Boromir

Hero (3)
Glorfindel (FoS) x1
Boromir (TDM) x1
Elrond (SaF) x1


Ally (24)
Ethir Swordsman (TSF) x3
Knights of the Swan (TSF) x3
Arwen Undomiel (TWitW) x1
Envoy of Pelargir (HON) x3
Landroval (AJtR) x1
Beorn (Core) x1
Gandalf (Core) x3
Imladris Stargazer (FoS) x3
Henamarth Riversong (Core) x1
Gildor Inglorion (THoEM) x1
Elfhelm (TDM) x1
Warden of Healing (TLD) x2
Anfalas Herdsman (TSF) x1


Attachment (14)
Gondorian Shield (TSF) x3
Light of Valinor (FoS) x3
Vilya (SaF) x3
Expert Treasure-hunter (OtD) x3
Asfaloth (FoS) x1
Unexpected Courage (Core) x1


Event (12)
Elrond's Counsel (TWitW) x3
A Test of Will (Core) x3
Daeron's Runes (FoS) x3
The Galadhrim's Greeting (Core) x1
Hasty Stroke (Core) x2

And

[Solo] GBT / Secrecy - Glorfindel / Bifur / Theodred

Hero (3)
Glorfindel (FoS) x1
Theodred (Core) x1
Bifur (KD) x1


Ally (18)
Gandalf (Core) x3
Henamarth Riversong (Core) x2
Arwen Undomiel (TWitW) x2
Beorn (Core) x1
Faramir (Core) x2
Gleowine (Core) x1
Dori (OHaUH) x1
Elfhelm (TDM) x1
Erestor (TLD) x1
Haldir of Lorien (AJtR) x1
Gildor Inglorion (THoEM) x1
Warden of Healing (TLD) x2


Attachment (10)
Steward of Gondor (Core) x3
Light of Valinor (FoS) x3
King Under the Mountain (OtD) x2
Asfaloth (FoS) x2


Event (22)
Elrond's Counsel (TWitW) x3
Sneak Attack (Core) x3
A Test of Will (Core) x3
Daeron's Runes (FoS) x3
We Are Not Idle (SaF) x3
Hasty Stroke (Core) x2
Timely Aid (TRG) x3
Shadow of the Past (RtM) x2

These was my two favorite decks before testing outlands.

 

Mono-Leadership is probably strongest. Take Hirluin with Théodred and Balin, all the Outlands, perhaps safe Forlong, the Lord of Morthond, A Very Good Tale, Steward of Gondor, Men of the West, Valiant Sacrifice (maybe), King Under the Mountain, Sneak Attack, Gandalf (Core), and fill the rest with cheap Gondor Allies, for instance, like Errand-rider or Envoy of Pelargir. Really not that many choices. If you want to go For Gondor, use Imrahil and Boromir instead, and try getting more Gondorians like the new Squire, Watchman or Custodian. Either way (been there done that), it is one of the most boring experience I have had with the game, but it wins you games no doubt about that.

This is a non-sense to speak about the "best version". Playing in solo, duo, trio or quatuor is completely different. It is quite difficult to discuss about best version in multi players because it is dependant about what you play in the others decks. So we have to discuss to "what is the best way to play two(then three, the four) decks with at least one with outlands".

But about solo decks it is more easy. And after some tests about differents outlands version I'm sure that mono-leardership is not at all the best version. I prefer this version:

[Solo] Outlands + Secrecy - Glorfindel / Bifur / Hirluin the Fair

Hero (3)
Bifur (KD) x1
Glorfindel (FoS) x1
Hirluin the Fair (TSF) x1


Ally (21)
Anfalas Herdsman (TSF) x3
Ethir Swordsman (TSF) x3
Forlong (TDF) x1
Hunter of Lamedon (HON) x3
Knights of the Swan (TSF) x3
Warrior of Lossarnach (TSF) x3
Gandalf (Core) x3
Henamarth Riversong (Core) x1
Warden of Healing (TLD) x1


Attachment (8)
Resourceful (TWitW) x3
Steward of Gondor (Core) x3
Light of Valinor (FoS) x2


Event (21)
Timely Aid (TRG) x3
We Are Not Idle (SaF) x3
Daeron's Runes (FoS) x3
A Test of Will (Core) x3
Elrond's Counsel (TWitW) x3
A Very Good Tale (OHaUH) x3
Peace, and Thought (SaF) x3

This is my thought of a deck originally built by Lilian.

 

As you can see I have tried a lot of way to play the game. So when I say that dwarf combo is not the same that any decks that you can see even without doomed that's not because it is my favorite decks or cause by a lack of knowledge of what we can do in LoTR LCG.

 

So yes:

1- 90% of winning in turn one. I do a total of -100 points after playing all the main quests (all that 24 available in french).

2- The best version, that who have the best rate of winning was not the funny one that I show you. It was probably one who don't care of winning in turn one because you have to play too many cards for doing it. It is probably more efficient to win in a few turn (one per quest step).

3- That mean that will of the west is a funny cards, absolutely not a powerful cards that need to be fixed. Not at all.

4- I planned to give you more explanations about dwarf combos decks. You can find a version without doomed cards here: http://www.cardgamed...d-ori-nori-r768 + http://www.cardgamed...in-beravor-r766

5- I haven't opportunity to do any video of the decks. If someone help to do I can do it, but with french cards that are mine.

 

PS: Sorry if I assassinate your language every time I post. Someone will correct my deck presentations so it will be more easy to read ;).



#47 Glaurung

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 08:56 PM

We need errata even quickly as i though…….Voice is still not coming but we have already crazy broken things….. 


Wizard is never late.......

 

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#48 leptokurt

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 02:19 PM

I don't think that cards should get an errata just because they allow loopholes in certain decks. As mentioned, Zigil Miner and Master of Lore are bad examples of using errata. Best thing is to ignore these cards or certain combos, if you think they're overpowered.



#49 CaffeineAddict

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:39 PM

But with new cards this combo become totally insane. I try to build optimal versions and I think that the most recent is able to make the combo at 95% on the turn one. So we have 20 allies in play at the turn one and we are able to ready them 3 times. So for fun I try to even complete quests on the turn one. And, as Lilian say I see that is possible for every quests except Escape from Dol Guldur. And for 2 others quests I need to be lucky. For the 21 others you can do it every time. So you win at 90% on the turn one.

 

Perhaps i'm just being a bit dense, but I don't see how this deck gets 20 allies in play on turn one, or wins a multi-stage quest on turn one. Can someone explain clearly how this works? From reading the thread it seems like other people have twigged what's going on, so maybe i'm just missing something obvious.



#50 Glaurung

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 08:24 PM

Actually all this problems come from unlimited draw and unlimited size of players hand. Quite difficult to keep some balance if players can draw like crazy and keep every thing in they hand. So this kind of combo will always appear until they fix the rules about it.


Wizard is never late.......

 

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#51 chuckles

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 11:57 PM

I don't think that cards should get an errata just because they allow loopholes in certain decks. As mentioned, Zigil Miner and Master of Lore are bad examples of using errata. Best thing is to ignore these cards or certain combos, if you think they're overpowered.

 

I agree... do not like the idea of making more coasters just because there are crazy combo's out there that a few people play (or create to merely see if they can)... its a solo or Co-Op game, play it your way... if you like 1 round games... great... I think I'd find that a bit boring... 


"Do not believe him! He has lost all power, save his voice that can still daunt you and deceive you, if you let it."

 


#52 Ana

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 01:39 AM

Of course, I agree with the above. But they do errata anyway, and if they do, they should shaft the cards responsible for the mad loops, not the likes of Master of Lore. As I said before, I would never want to play any of these decks, I don't even play the Outlands because I find them super boring.



#53 Glaurung

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 04:54 AM

Of course, I agree with the above. But they do errata anyway, and if they do, they should shaft the cards responsible for the mad loops, not the likes of Master of Lore. As I said before, I would never want to play any of these decks, I don't even play the Outlands because I find them super boring.

 

Of course, I agree with the above. But they do errata anyway, and if they do, they should shaft the cards responsible for the mad loops, not the likes of Master of Lore. As I said before, I would never want to play any of these decks, I don't even play the Outlands because I find them super boring.

Hmmm errata or kind of things i always  needed. In the card game when the card pool grow is always eventually  come out something what can be to crazy powerful and break the balance of the game. Don't forget maybe i wrong but i think is only one serious card game which one still have (surprise for me) Unbalanced draw and unlimited hand size. In my opinion this is a root of all problems. 


Wizard is never late.......

 

Glaurung playtrough LOTR LCG on youtube :

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#54 Lilian

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 05:12 AM

 

I don't think that cards should get an errata just because they allow loopholes in certain decks. As mentioned, Zigil Miner and Master of Lore are bad examples of using errata. Best thing is to ignore these cards or certain combos, if you think they're overpowered.

 

I agree... do not like the idea of making more coasters just because there are crazy combo's out there that a few people play (or create to merely see if they can)... its a solo or Co-Op game, play it your way... if you like 1 round games... great... I think I'd find that a bit boring... 

 

 

It's true if you play alone. But we organised tournament play around the game and we de don't want to see these type of decks.


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#55 Glaurung

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 05:21 AM

 

 

I don't think that cards should get an errata just because they allow loopholes in certain decks. As mentioned, Zigil Miner and Master of Lore are bad examples of using errata. Best thing is to ignore these cards or certain combos, if you think they're overpowered.

 

I agree... do not like the idea of making more coasters just because there are crazy combo's out there that a few people play (or create to merely see if they can)... its a solo or Co-Op game, play it your way... if you like 1 round games... great... I think I'd find that a bit boring... 

 

 

It's true if you play alone. But we organised tournament play around the game and we de don't want to see these type of decks.

 

Yes sure this kind of things should be fix. But please tell me what kind of tournaments you do??


Wizard is never late.......

 

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#56 Ana

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 05:40 AM

I agree, for the organized play, this needs be fixed. I mean I might be a bit crazy but even for me alone, I wouldn't want such loops exist. For some reason I always stick to the rules of the game, never changing them on my own, and I have a hard time just ignore certain things. Also, when I introduce the cards to new players, it feels stupid to tell them, "well, don't bother with this card, it is too good for the game." These issues need be fixed.



#57 alogos

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 07:27 AM

 

 

 

I don't think that cards should get an errata just because they allow loopholes in certain decks. As mentioned, Zigil Miner and Master of Lore are bad examples of using errata. Best thing is to ignore these cards or certain combos, if you think they're overpowered.

 

I agree... do not like the idea of making more coasters just because there are crazy combo's out there that a few people play (or create to merely see if they can)... its a solo or Co-Op game, play it your way... if you like 1 round games... great... I think I'd find that a bit boring... 

 

 

It's true if you play alone. But we organised tournament play around the game and we de don't want to see these type of decks.

 

Yes sure this kind of things should be fix. But please tell me what kind of tournaments you do??

 

 

This should be discussed in a new thread to keep things clear here. Maybe in player community ?

To be short, we were not convinced by the Race against the shadow format and so every tournaments I know were made with custom rules, some even used fan cards.



#58 leptokurt

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:19 AM

Actually all this problems come from unlimited draw and unlimited size of players hand. Quite difficult to keep some balance if players can draw like crazy and keep every thing in they hand. So this kind of combo will always appear until they fix the rules about it.

A hand limit would be neat.



#59 richsabre

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 12:42 PM

Occam's Razor- this simplest solution is usually the correct one.

 

so yes- it would be far better to introduce a hand limit or similar as suggested instead of changing every card in the future that breaks the game

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#60 Glaurung

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 12:43 PM

 

Actually all this problems come from unlimited draw and unlimited size of players hand. Quite difficult to keep some balance if players can draw like crazy and keep every thing in they hand. So this kind of combo will always appear until they fix the rules about it.

A hand limit would be neat.

 

Yes probably hand limit will be enough.


Wizard is never late.......

 

Glaurung playtrough LOTR LCG on youtube :

http://www.youtube.com/user/olegyd   





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