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#21 Glaurung

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:29 AM

New cycle will change many things.... and cards like Loragorn will be crazy broken. Even now there some unbalanced cards ( list by tracker1 above is really solid and target the true).
Actually I talk about it already years ago.....
Wizard is never late.......

#22 Ana

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:32 AM

Just some funny translations to follow... (my guesses)

 

History of the Corner of Fire = Peace, and Thought

Corbel of the Mountain = Ravens of the Mountain

We are not Lazy = We are not Idle

Opulence of Lórien = Lórien's Wealth

Adventurous Drum = Wandering Took

Born in Altitude = Borne Aloft

Furtive Attack = Sneak Attack

Gifts of Goodbye = Parting Gifts

 

On the other hand, I have no idea what chemin de great step might mean...



#23 Ana

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:34 AM

New cycle will change many things.... and cards like Loragorn will be crazy broken. Even now there some unbalanced cards ( list by tracker1 above is really solid and target the true).
Actually I talk about it already years ago.....

Never worry, we all know you were winning the quests even before they had existed... (just teasing, of course)



#24 Tracker1

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 08:06 AM

The bigger problem is the Outlands because, as said above, there is no such one errata solution. Though, actually, if you shaft the Herdsman, you still have a Lore Outlands ally (the Hunter) that is very good, and they all remain fragile at 1 hit point, and will be crushed by certain encounter cards. I think that would be the easiest solution..


Taking the herdsmen out of an Outlands deck would be a game changer, and probably the best solution, at least for quests that have treachery and shadow cards that could deal damage to allies.
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#25 Lilian

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 08:35 AM

Here the decks with the correct name :

Hero 1: Nori
Hero 2: Balin
Hero 3: Beravor
Event
3 Daeron's Runes
3 We Are Not Idle
3 Campfire Tales
3 Legacy of Numenor
3 Deep Knowledge
3 Strider's path
2 force of will
2 Party Gifts
2 Will of the West
1 Lorien's Wealth
1 Lure of Moria
1 Out of Nature
1 Risk Some Light
1 Stand and fight
1 Lore of imladris
1 The Galadhrim's Greeting
1 Ravens of the mountain

Combined
1 The Riddermarl's Finest
1 Keen-eyed took

Attachment
3 love of Tales
3 Durin's legacy
3 Song of Eärendil
3 song of wisdom
3 Song of the Kings
1 Song of the Travel

Deck Combo

Hero 1: Oin
Hero 2: Bifur
Hero 3: Dáin Ironfoot

Event
3 Daeron's Runes
3 We Are Not Idle
3 Gaining strength
3 Legacy of Numenor
3 Deep Knowledge
3 Sneak Attack
3 word of command
2 will of the west
2 Lure of Moria

Attachment
3 born aloft
2 Song of Eärendil
1 horn of Gondor
1 Legacy of Durin

Combined
3 Erebor Record Keeper
3 Erebor Hammersmith
3 Miner of the Iron Hills
3 Zigil Miner
3 Gandalf
1 veteran Axehand
1 Gloin
1 Dwalin



#26 Lilian

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 08:37 AM

i know i hate myself for saying this, but i cannot believe any deck can win on 1 turn with such consistency.....but as with tracker i have difficutly understanding the translations so cannot really comment

 

i think the best way to prove these things are a video link to either an octgn game or a real life game....is there one?

rich

There's no video sorry and the player who build this deck is a great player of Magic the gathering



#27 Ana

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:01 AM

 

The bigger problem is the Outlands because, as said above, there is no such one errata solution. Though, actually, if you shaft the Herdsman, you still have a Lore Outlands ally (the Hunter) that is very good, and they all remain fragile at 1 hit point, and will be crushed by certain encounter cards. I think that would be the easiest solution..


Taking the herdsmen out of an Outlands deck would be a game changer, and probably the best solution, at least for quests that have treachery and shadow cards that could deal damage to allies.

 

Yes, it would not be a silver bullet solution but at least a try - without destroying too many cards.

I know this has been addressed so many times but do the designers actually play-test much? I know they say so but then they surely must see that playing Outlands is much easier than usual decks. It beats Lake-town regularly (not saying always) whilst other decks get smashed more often than not, and great decks too.

What is worst about it, for me, though is that you do not really build decks with Outlands. You just insert the cards given to you. There is little to no option, especially after the Lord of Morthond came out.


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#28 Ana

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:03 AM

Oh, thanks Lilian, so I was totally wrong about Peace, and Thought, it is of course Campfire Tales, I completely forgot about that card, it being rather poor in general.



#29 richsabre

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 11:48 AM

What is worst about it, for me, though is that you do not really build decks with Outlands. You just insert the cards given to you. There is little to no option, especially after the Lord of Morthond came out.

 

yes- this. there really is no deck building in outlands, which is different from dwarves which is why i like them so much (if you can stay away from dain that is)

all outlands decks are

hirluin + 2 other heroes (it barely matters who) + every single outlands ally + steward of gondor + outlands attatchents+ beorns tale (cant remember name now)

 

on the note of general game breaking decks- that is an issue that concerns me. ....what new errata will  we get to counter act it? ....i still cannot believe zigil miner....i mean there was 1 deck that broke the game, but it was an awful deck and not even worth playing, but all the same we lost a card from it

 

i think this is the issue in general- can you resist breaking the game if the cards are given to you? i never think a card should get shafted if it requires 1 specific deck to break the game, or even make it overpowered. it should only be if the card stands powerful on its own, or with many combos


Edited by richsabre, 07 November 2013 - 11:52 AM.

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#30 Emrad

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:08 PM

Well, breaking a co-op game seems totally counter-productive to me. How enjoyable is winning on turn 1 every encounter without even giving it a though or a chance? Where's the fun, the enjoyment of the lore, and simply the game?

With this game, it all comes down to being fair with what you do. Yes, Outlands are OP and have an obvious mono-color solid build that destroys pretty much any adventure, but it's only worth knowing that it's out there and that some crazy actions can happen with it.

 

In the upcoming month, Voice of Isengard will crush everything with more free cards, and I find this somehow sad, because the mstake has been made in the past with many games, and it doesn't seem to affect the design decision of R&D team here.

 

But in the end, enjoy the game as much as you can, the way you want to see it played, and don't bother playing competitively, it hasn't been designed for this at all. My take on this is: Enjoy the game with friends, with fair decks and a fine beer, crush Orcs or be crushed but keep it fun.


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#31 richsabre

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:10 PM

But in the end, enjoy the game as much as you can, the way you want to see it played, and don't bother playing competitively, it hasn't been designed for this at all. My take on this is: Enjoy the game with friends, with fair decks and a fine beer, crush Orcs or be crushed but keep it fun.

indeed....beer+friends+crushed orcs = good times :)


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#32 richsabre

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 01:58 PM

take a look at this 'draft pack' new format that ffg has come up with for its other lcgs. i know this one isnt competative but perhaps this could be adapated in some form for this game

http://www.fantasyfl...s.asp?eidn=4486


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#33 Rouxxxor

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:25 PM

Hello,

 

I'm the creator of the two deck presented by Lilian. I work on Dwarf combo for 2 players since a while. So I have an actual version (without doomed cards) and it is already crazy. Able to win quest in a few turn. To bring 20 allies in the first three turns. And able to ready them each turn by lure of Moria.

 

But with new cards this combo become totally insane. I try to build optimal versions and I think that the most recent is able to make the combo at 95% on the turn one. So we have 20 allies in play at the turn one and we are able to ready them 3 times. So for fun I try to even complete quests on the turn one. And, as Lilian say I see that is possible for every quests except Escape from Dol Guldur. And for 2 others quests I need to be lucky. For the 21 others you can do it every time. So you win at 90% on the turn one.

 

So of course this deck is not safe for competitive play. But it is not about playing will of the west. It is absolutely unnecessary for winning. I already think about what can be cut off of this deck. And the conclusion is: no matter what you take off the deck will still be too powerful. Sure it will not be able to crush everything instantly. But it will be best deck for 2 players.

 

The two majors cards are:

- We are not idle : This card is a staple in Lotr in general (draw a card for 0 is always cool). In this deck it become indecent. You also win too much resources. A good idea is to restrict number of dward that you can exhaust. For example:

"Action: Exhaust up to 1 Dwarf character to add that number of resources to a hero's resource pool and draw 1 card."

Some rather want an edit for avoid to set this card in 3X in all decks with the leadership sphere. Something like:

"Action: Exhaust 1 Dwarf character for adding 1 resources to a hero's resource pool and draw 1 card."

- Legacy of Durin : you can draw too many cards. Could be write:

"Response: After you play a Dwarf character from your hand, exhaust Legacy of Durin for drawing 1 card."

 

With this two changes you will kill dwarf combo. And it will be cool for the game.

 

There's no video sorry and the player who build this deck is a great player of Magic the gathering

No I'm not. I was an average competitive player. I may be in the first % of magic players but it still far away of being a "great player".



#34 Tracker1

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:55 PM

Wow, thanks for the lesson. Not sure i'll try it but i'm real curious to see how these decks work.

One thing I am not sure of is, if a scenario has 3 or more quest cards, how can you complete all of them in one turn, since progress from one quest card in not carried over to the next card after quest resolution? Would it not be at least one round per quest card?
'At last' said Aragorn 'Here are the tracks that we seek!'

#35 Alex6222

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 06:56 PM

Okay can someone please tell me how do they make to work the new outland cards into the outland deck. I once tried doing a mono-leadership with lord of morthond and it failed terribly. I agree that outlands are overpowered but i think they depend too much on card draw (beravor) and there arent many cards to make a fully thematic outland deck like dwarves or noldor/silvan. I know another outland hero would be more power-breaking but i just dont like the feeling of mixing different factions.

Edited by Alex6222, 07 November 2013 - 10:48 PM.


#36 Ana

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:09 AM

Wow, thanks for the lesson. Not sure i'll try it but i'm real curious to see how these decks work.

One thing I am not sure of is, if a scenario has 3 or more quest cards, how can you complete all of them in one turn, since progress from one quest card in not carried over to the next card after quest resolution? Would it not be at least one round per quest card?

They use Ravens of the Mountain, as I said above.

 

Now, yes, the loops are the definition of boredom. I would never pursue that path. Still, I want to see some of the cards shafted because they are bad design. And it is here that ffg is just shocking, for some reason they shaft Master of Lore who had never been very powerful and now is just terrible. And cards like Will of the West, which I could certainly do without, as it is a boring card too, but the one allowing for most of the loops, somehow still works just as it has since the beginning.



#37 Glaurung

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:12 AM

Wow, thanks for the lesson. Not sure i'll try it but i'm real curious to see how these decks work.
One thing I am not sure of is, if a scenario has 3 or more quest cards, how can you complete all of them in one turn, since progress from one quest card in not carried over to the next card after quest resolution? Would it not be at least one round per quest card?

maybe he mean there is no point to play since he is already too strong after the first roind
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#38 Lilian

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:14 AM

 

Now, yes, the loops are the definition of boredom. I would never pursue that path. Still, I want to see some of the cards shafted because they are bad design. And it is here that ffg is just shocking, for some reason they shaft Master of Lore who had never been very powerful and now is just terrible. And cards like Will of the West, which I could certainly do without, as it is a boring card too, but the one allowing for most of the loops, somehow still works just as it has since the beginning.

 

 

A player propose to add "victory 1" to will of the west and i thought that's a good idea

 

I agree that "loops are the definition of boredom" and I think they must be eradicated from Lotr



#39 Ana

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:15 AM

Okay can someone please tell me how do they make to work the new outland cards into the outland deck. I once tried doing a mono-leadership with lord of morthond and it failed terribly. I agree that outlands are overpowered but i think they depend too much on card draw (beravor) and there arent many cards to make a fully thematic outland deck like dwarves or noldor/silvan. I know another outland hero would be more power-breaking but i just dont like the feeling of mixing different factions.

Mono-Leadership is probably strongest. Take Hirluin with Théodred and Balin, all the Outlands, perhaps safe Forlong, the Lord of Morthond, A Very Good Tale, Steward of Gondor, Men of the West, Valiant Sacrifice (maybe), King Under the Mountain, Sneak Attack, Gandalf (Core), and fill the rest with cheap Gondor Allies, for instance, like Errand-rider or Envoy of Pelargir. Really not that many choices. If you want to go For Gondor, use Imrahil and Boromir instead, and try getting more Gondorians like the new Squire, Watchman or Custodian. Either way (been there done that), it is one of the most boring experience I have had with the game, but it wins you games no doubt about that.



#40 Ana

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:18 AM

 

 

Now, yes, the loops are the definition of boredom. I would never pursue that path. Still, I want to see some of the cards shafted because they are bad design. And it is here that ffg is just shocking, for some reason they shaft Master of Lore who had never been very powerful and now is just terrible. And cards like Will of the West, which I could certainly do without, as it is a boring card too, but the one allowing for most of the loops, somehow still works just as it has since the beginning.

 

 

A player propose to add "victory 1" to will of the west and i thought that's a good idea

 

I agree that "loops are the definition of boredom" and I think they must be eradicated from Lotr

 

Yeah, the victory could help, for sure, excellent idea. I would still not play the card much, I think, but it would certainly make sense. The limit one per deck could also help - it would then be just as restricted as Black Arrow (and when you think about it, the Arrow surely cannot make more of a difference on a usual game).






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