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Did I handle this combat correctly?


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#21 pearldrum1

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:05 PM

You need to have a point of damage left over after the Damage - TB - AP equation (modified by things like Penetration and/or Felling) for the attack to deal Magnitude damage. 

 

So...horde has TB 4, Armor 4. You hit it with a 2d10 Pen 0 frag grenade. You need to do at least 9 damage to hurt them (9 - 4 TB - 4 AP).

 

If you're instead shooting the same horde with a 1d10+9 Pen 4 bolter, you'll automatically damage it (minimum 10 damage - 4 TB = 6 leftover automatically, AP fully negated by Pen). 

 

 

That is what I thought. At least 1 point of damage left over. This simplifies things greatly.



#22 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 10:11 PM

Even if they were caught in a surprise round?

 

CRB under flying creatures mentions that a flying creature imposes a -10 to BS made against it. I cant recall pg number right now, sorry.

 

By quickdrawing his bolt pistol would he have dropped his HB on the ground?

 

One more - spending a fate point heals how much damage?

 

Actually Fire for Effect allows you to make a Standard Attack, not any other actions. So he couldn't have Quick Drawn. 'Tis one of the minuses of heavy weapons.



#23 pearldrum1

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:14 AM

 

Even if they were caught in a surprise round?

 

CRB under flying creatures mentions that a flying creature imposes a -10 to BS made against it. I cant recall pg number right now, sorry.

 

By quickdrawing his bolt pistol would he have dropped his HB on the ground?

 

One more - spending a fate point heals how much damage?

 

Actually Fire for Effect allows you to make a Standard Attack, not any other actions. So he couldn't have Quick Drawn. 'Tis one of the minuses of heavy weapons.

 

 

I told him OOC, you may as well just leave squad mode to take advantage of your solo-mode ability. I am sure this will happen sooner or later.



#24 pearldrum1

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:11 PM

So, as for the teams reactions, the majority of them (sans the Dev) are planning on utlizing Fire for Effect still. My question is this: When do the Fire for Effect shots happen? The Gargoyles are highest in the initiative order and have already fired and missed on the team. Should Fire for Effect then happen in response to this stimuli and take place immediately before each PC`s turn in their assigned orders of initiative?



#25 Kshatriya

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:52 PM

Gargoyles act.

First Astarte calles Fire for Effect.

Fire for Effect shots occur.

Normal initiative for PCs continues.



#26 pearldrum1

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:16 AM

fire for effect happens all at once then?

 

Furthermore, are the extra hits gained by DoS counted as explosive as well?

 

For example, one of my players used fire for effect rolled a 9 earning 4Dos. so, 1 hit for success +1 hit for explosive +2 hit for DoS...do those last two hits get the explosive quality as well or are they just extra?



#27 Kshatriya

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 08:31 AM

Having it happen all at once is IMO the simplest way to do it, bookkeeping-wise. It may not be a perfect simulation but with combat I prefer to make it more fluid and organic mechanics-wise than mirroring real-life as closely as possible.

 

X is, I believe +1 hit added on at the end, not a +1 modifier that improves all other hits. But this is one of those things I don't recall very well.



#28 pearldrum1

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 05:18 PM

Ah, OK. Well, it worked itself out. The way I handled it was with Fire for Effect, since it was a response to the external stimuli of being shot and the enemies presented themselves as a horde, I worked it out just before each player`s turn. This wasn`t a problem as by the time the third player went, they had decimated the horde within 15 in-game seconds. I also ended up ruling that the +1 explosive bonus counts for actual rounds fired, not hits based on DoS as I justify those as collateral hits from the physical rounds fired. Therefore a semi-auto bolt pistol burst can get 2 hits +2 explosive and a HB can get 6 hits +6 explosive, but the explosive quality will not count for DoS hits. Does that make sense?

 

The coup de grace came as our Space Wolf Assault Marine charged the Gargoyles in the air and scored a devastating blow: something like 4 DoS and rolling a 9 for Wrathful Descent. He landed in a pile of dead and dying enemies at the end of his turn. It was glorious.



#29 herichimo

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 06:26 PM

Furthermore, are the extra hits gained by DoS counted as explosive as well?

 

The bonus hit from an Explosive attack are added after all other modifiers. Specifically clarified in the Errata.

 

Every time you roll a BS attack you can only get 1 extra hit from X.

 

This also goes for bonus hits from melee weapons with Power Field.


Edited by herichimo, 07 November 2013 - 06:27 PM.


#30 pearldrum1

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:33 PM

 

Furthermore, are the extra hits gained by DoS counted as explosive as well?

 

The bonus hit from an Explosive attack are added after all other modifiers. Specifically clarified in the Errata.

 

Every time you roll a BS attack you can only get 1 extra hit from X.

 

This also goes for bonus hits from melee weapons with Power Field.

 

 

I am sure they have good reason to do this... but it doesn`t make sense to me. If 6 bolt rounds hit, all six are in fact exploding. As each is defined to do. I don`t know if I like that. At least against hordes anyway. I realize how this could seriously ruin a single enemy`s day.


Edited by pearldrum1, 07 November 2013 - 07:34 PM.


#31 Kshatriya

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:37 PM

Hordes don't deserve sympathy. =P Besides that, there's a fine line to be drawn. They have to be killable quickly, because if not they can very easily TPK a team. At the same time, they should present more than a flat roadblock, while also not taking up too much attention/spotlight from the "real" enemies.


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#32 pearldrum1

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:41 AM

Ah, I am sorry. I see that I worded that oddly. I am saying I don't like that the rules PREVENT each successful bolter hit from adding an extra +1 for explosion. 

 

I can see why that rule could seriously hurt an elite, "real" enemy, but it makes sense to absolutely ravage and destroy a horde with it.

 

 

;)

 

 

Has anyone here experienced throwing grenades at a flying horde? I was thinking of allowing it but invoking a Very Hard (-30) test to account for "cooking" the fuse and throwing at the proper height. Of course, the flyers could not be higher than the Astartes SBx3.

 

Thoughts on something like this?



#33 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 05:40 AM

fire for effect happens all at once then?

Yes. Squad modes that allow you to 'do something' - move, shoot, whatever - allow everyone in squad mode to act simultaneously, giving you essentially an extra out-of-sequence turn



#34 Kshatriya

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 08:50 AM

Eh, I probably wouldn't impose a penalty to hitting a flying Horde with grenades. I like to keep the Astartes fighting somewhat more cinematic when I can, and I bet the Codex covers this tactic. ;)


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#35 pearldrum1

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 08:10 PM

 

fire for effect happens all at once then?

Yes. Squad modes that allow you to 'do something' - move, shoot, whatever - allow everyone in squad mode to act simultaneously, giving you essentially an extra out-of-sequence turn

 

 

Well, since everything is happening at the same time anyways - 1 round is 1 five-second period in time - handling the reactions before each individual's turn would essentially be the same thing. They are still all acting simultaneously, I am just describing their actions as a sequence of events rather than all at the same time. Essentially what I am trying to figure out is if my way of handling reactions, versus doing them all at once, has any major mechanical differences in-game.

 

Keep in mind, I am playing in a PbP forum. 



#36 pearldrum1

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 08:11 PM

Eh, I probably wouldn't impose a penalty to hitting a flying Horde with grenades. I like to keep the Astartes fighting somewhat more cinematic when I can, and I bet the Codex covers this tactic. ;)

 

Now that is a damn generous GM if I have ever heard of one. Haha.



#37 Kshatriya

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 01:01 PM

5 seconds per round is also a really silly idea in practice.

 

Also what I mean is: I wouldn't instill penalties above and beyond the basic -10 to hit aerial foes (not in melee) with grenades. What purpose does it serve? Astartes are made for war. They've probably done weirder things in combat than throw grenades at flyers.


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#38 pearldrum1

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 02:02 AM

What about a "miss" with a grenade against a horde? It seems to me that even if the grenade misses it still flies in a random direction and would still explode, damaging the horde.



#39 herichimo

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 02:42 AM

Grenades do miss according to the grenade scatter rules of the Core rulebook. Whether the grenade lands close enough to the horde to cause hits is up to the GM based upon the size and "area" the horde is currently occupying. If the grenade scatters to the point where it still hits a horde, but the blast area doesn't fully cover the horde, then the GM should probably rule the grenade does fewer base hits (number up to GM).

 

Throwing grenades at flying targets is more involved than just hitting them. Grenades use timers and DO NOT auto-detonate when they hit an enemy (sorry video games). I would apply a pretty decent penalty (-20 or -30) to the grenade attack to represent the marine "guessing" the timing to get the grenade to detonate near the flying horde. Misses scatter normally though may still "nick" the horde.



#40 pearldrum1

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:36 AM

Grenades do miss according to the grenade scatter rules of the Core rulebook. Whether the grenade lands close enough to the horde to cause hits is up to the GM based upon the size and "area" the horde is currently occupying. If the grenade scatters to the point where it still hits a horde, but the blast area doesn't fully cover the horde, then the GM should probably rule the grenade does fewer base hits (number up to GM).

 

Throwing grenades at flying targets is more involved than just hitting them. Grenades use timers and DO NOT auto-detonate when they hit an enemy (sorry video games). I would apply a pretty decent penalty (-20 or -30) to the grenade attack to represent the marine "guessing" the timing to get the grenade to detonate near the flying horde. Misses scatter normally though may still "nick" the horde.

 

 

1. Alright, cool.

 

2. Yeah, that was kind of my point in bringing up "cooking" the fuse.






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