Jump to content



Photo

Castle Daerion: is it really so difficult?


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 No Hero

No Hero

    Member

  • Members
  • 53 posts

Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:44 AM

I played Castle Daerion agaisnt 4 heroes and got my ass handed to me, even with Palamon failing his recruiting roll for like 10 turns out of 15.

Here's a little premises:

-The heroes had what imho is the perfect group. Wildlander Jain, Runemaster Tahra (with Exploding Rune of course), Spiritspeaker Ashrian and Knight Syndrael (again of course with Defend...and Defense Training)

-We used the FAQ

-This was the last quest of Act I before the Interlude, and the heroes had won all, getting nice equipment in the process as well, in particular Jain with Helm Greatbow and Mana Weave and Syndrael with Chainmail and Shield of the Dark God

-In Encounter 1 I managed to kill 2 villagers, then they were all in the cabin permanently huddled to the knight

 

So, right from the start I knew I couldn't block the stairway because it's silly to huddle monster with a Runemaster in the party. Syndrael used her Feat to have her and Ashrian run right in the throne room, and Ashrian stunned the Ettins. Tahra and Jain stayed a little behind and went to town on my flesh moulders. Ser Palamon moved far enough (with the FAQ he can do it) to get out of range of anything but the zombies, which proved ineffective against 2 grey defence die. I could only play a Dash on the master Ettin to get a blow in and that was that.

On the second turn I already knew I lost. The ettins were completely wiped out in one turn, and Alric's health was halved. Syndrael was hugging Palamon the whole time and the rest of the group positioned so that I couldn't make optimal use of Overpower. On my third turn, I had Alric at 1 health remaining and the map clear of monsters, except the master I could respawn every turn. They took their time to leisurely search tokens and even explore a secret room.

 

So that is that for the most difficult quest of Act I. Maybe if I won First Blood and could choose it as the first quest. Maybe if the heroes weren't smart enough to spend their first single XP on Shared Pain, Defend and Exploding Rune. Maybe if Palamon couldn't move and/or he had his original defense. Maybe if Ashrian wasn't there. Maybe.

 

What's your opinion on Castle Daerion post-FAQ, as both heroes and Overlords?


Edited by No Hero, 29 October 2013 - 11:01 AM.


#2 Robin

Robin

    Member

  • Members
  • 694 posts

Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:50 AM

While pre-FAQ version made heroes win about impossible, post-FAQ favours the heroes a lot.
  • rfisha likes this
An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#3 C2K

C2K

    Member

  • Members
  • 126 posts

Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:45 PM

Pre-FAQ, with the right party, you could easily win this as the heroes too.  If your party is strong enough to crush the intial setup, you can bottleneck the hallway to where the only monster you need to worry about is Alrik.  Its a really cheesy way to win, but its very doable. 

 

Have not played this quest post-FAQ. 



#4 Robin

Robin

    Member

  • Members
  • 694 posts

Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:52 PM

Pre-FAQ with the Militia placed in front of the heroes, the latters' attacks were forfeit.
If the OL placed Kobolds in the way, he easily could have the ettin throw Palamon in the corridor and butcher him before the heroes could make their way to save him.
FFG realised that the quest was broken and thus provided the FAQ modifications.
An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#5 rfisha

rfisha

    Member

  • Members
  • 219 posts

Posted 29 October 2013 - 05:19 PM

This is one of the only quests I was able to win playing 2 heroes and I smashed it.  Really balanced towards the heroes!



#6 MadBat

MadBat

    Member

  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:02 AM

It's the same problems with everything they've errata'd.

Pre-change the OL had an advantage by playing a certain why...

Post-change, there's no way the OL has any chance.

Same can be said with the OL cards. I do get the errata on 1 or 2 cards of a 3 cards combo, but heavily changing all 3 cards so they lose all their value, that's a bridge too far.

Especially when the cards are supposed to give a little extra in case of 4 heroes, but they didn't even pick another slight extra.

Just nerf, no balance...

 

My take on that quest is just to ignore the faq and ban the kobolds (I don't have them anyway).

In my opinion, it's much more easy to impose a restriction on chosen monsters than breaking the whole quest in favor of heroes.


Edited by MadBat, 30 October 2013 - 08:08 AM.


#7 No Hero

No Hero

    Member

  • Members
  • 53 posts

Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:51 AM

If the only reason the quest was FAQed was the conversion kit, I could very well have played with the Quest Guide version. I don't have the CK and I don't ever intend to buy it, and a group with any blast weapon/ability will carve a path through anything I can put on the stairs in one round.Though the only difference then would have been an immobile Ser Palamon which was not even the issue there; the issue was how easily the heroes slaughtered anything that could damage him ever...

My conclusion is this: in the base game the quest was probably somewhat balanced. Adding a certain stupid mosnter group from the CK made it hard or next to impossible for the heroes. Balancing it for the CK screwed up everyone who bought only the base game and used the FAQ anyway...

 

Oh well, it's all experience for the next campaign I think!



#8 rfisha

rfisha

    Member

  • Members
  • 219 posts

Posted 30 October 2013 - 03:55 PM

If the only reason the quest was FAQed was the conversion kit, I could very well have played with the Quest Guide version. I don't have the CK and I don't ever intend to buy it, and a group with any blast weapon/ability will carve a path through anything I can put on the stairs in one round.Though the only difference then would have been an immobile Ser Palamon which was not even the issue there; the issue was how easily the heroes slaughtered anything that could damage him ever...

My conclusion is this: in the base game the quest was probably somewhat balanced. Adding a certain stupid mosnter group from the CK made it hard or next to impossible for the heroes. Balancing it for the CK screwed up everyone who bought only the base game and used the FAQ anyway...

 

Oh well, it's all experience for the next campaign I think!

 

That's an interetsing point, they could easily just changed the monster classes to exclude kobolds or just limit the number of monsters in a group for the quest.  Often balance is rectified with simpler options that diving into big rule changes.



#9 Surreal

Surreal

    Member

  • Members
  • 143 posts

Posted 02 November 2013 - 07:51 AM

I feel this quest depends after FAQ for one roll from Overlord: if Ettins can throw Palamon further then it gets quite hard for heroes. Overlord usually has only 1 turn to try this. After that throw Alric will overpower about 6 health per turn and Blood Raged ettin can dish insane damage so Palamon will last only about 2 turns.

 

If the 1st turn throw fails then Overlord must immobilize Palamon with master zombie (but usually heroes have some condition removal anyway). This will get harder because heroes get closer and kill master zombie which lets Palamon to run closer to the entrance which makes it a loss for Overlord. Overlord could still come back with lucky rolls form Blood Rage but I doubt it.


Edited by Surreal, 02 November 2013 - 07:59 AM.


#10 Robin

Robin

    Member

  • Members
  • 694 posts

Posted 02 November 2013 - 08:43 AM

 

 

That's an interetsing point, they could easily just changed the monster classes to exclude kobolds or just limit the number of monsters in a group for the quest.  Often balance is rectified with simpler options that diving into big rule changes.

 

I would even consider that if one wants to control the elements of a quest better, open groups should not be a possibility.
Simply assign definite monsters to the different places on the map.
Sure, the OL will have less fun choosing his monsters, but the challenge will be (partially) more "under control".

 

However, I don't think that the aim of the designers is to hold things that tight and that they don't mind letting multiple factors sow some chaos in the quests.

I don't mind either, as the storytelling is mostly important for me.


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#11 No Hero

No Hero

    Member

  • Members
  • 53 posts

Posted 02 November 2013 - 02:56 PM

I don't have the quest book at hand right now, but I don't think you place the master zombie on the map. You can reinforce it later though.

 

EDIT: Found it, I had it at home after all. Yep, you only place minion zombies on the throne room based on how many villagers you killed - the master is not placed.


Edited by No Hero, 02 November 2013 - 02:58 PM.


#12 Robin

Robin

    Member

  • Members
  • 694 posts

Posted 02 November 2013 - 04:11 PM

Anyway it is the Ettin, with his throw capacity, who is tbe key monster, as he can throw Palamon into the corridor and have the other monsters whack him.
Before FAQ correction, Palamon could not move away. Now he can, even before monsters have their turn...
An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton




© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS