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Rubric of Ahriman!


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#1 nagumyrehal

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:23 AM

So I'm in the middle of a Rouge Trader game and my crew has nearly all to chaos in the path of Tzeentch and me and two other characters have turned in the party and have by the powers of Tzeentch became psykers in secret. However the ship picked up a lot of Tzeentch cultist and i was wondering if the Rubric of Ahriman could be cast by party members and npcs on the ships crew.

i understand that this was a strong spell cast by the most powerful psyker of the Thousand Suns yet i think if we tricked a daemon in to host and said he would be free if he helped cast the spell for us is this possible daemon hosts are possible within the game and making them can be done but would a daemon know the rubric spell.

I also wish to know which amour is the most cheapest and sealed to give to all the ship crew except for the none essentials to an silent automaton army of death, cooks toilet cleaners.

would automatons improve the ship by any chance? :D

 



#2 Nameless2all

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:46 AM

In short answer form:  There is no RAW that says this can't (or can) be done.

 

To attempt to answer you questions, I will break them up. 

 

i understand that this was a strong spell cast by the most powerful psyker of the Thousand Suns yet i think if we tricked a daemon in to host and said he would be free if he helped cast the spell for us is this possible daemon hosts are possible within the game and making them can be done but would a daemon know the rubric spell.

 

Yes, it is a very strong spell.  There are no rules for it, but reading some fluff, a certain Greater Daemon of Tzeentch

 or Daemon Prince of Tzeentch could possibly know the spell.  But......  How would your Char know what the spell is unless it's OOC?  Any spell the Daemon casts, he can call it Rubric of Ahriman even though it is only a summon minor spirit spell.

 

I also wish to know which amour is the most cheapest and sealed to give to all the ship crew except for the none essentials to an silent automaton army of death, cooks toilet cleaners.

Probably void suits. 

 

would automatons improve the ship by any chance? :D

 

Do you mean servitors? If so, then yes in some instances, and no in others. Yes being they are not affected by Morale, mind controlling devices, and a few other things, and no because they do not have full cognitive thinking and are merely one track (maybe 3 or 4) minded creations.


For a collection of fan created material, please refer to the link below. Some of it was edited/created by myself and friends, while most is other fan material. Happy gaming people.https://drive.google.com<p>-"May your endeavors always be prosperous, though they may not always be profitable."


#3 Nameless2all

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:56 AM

P.S. I know in DH DotDG (Disciples of the Dark Gods) has various Sorcerous abilities to include creating Daemon-hosts. In RT, I do believe (don't have me books with me at the moment) some Sorcerous abilities are in EotA (Edge of the Abyss). It's not much, but it's a start so you can convert abilities from DH to RT though. Best wishes to you and your crew.

 

Now that I think about it, maybe someone more familiar with BC rules could help you. That seems more in line with where you are heading anyhoot. :D  LOL :( 


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#4 nagumyrehal

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:13 AM

In short answer form: There is no RAW that says this can't (or can) be done.

To attempt to answer you questions, I will break them up.

i understand that this was a strong spell cast by the most powerful psyker of the Thousand Suns yet i think if we tricked a daemon in to host and said he would be free if he helped cast the spell for us is this possible daemon hosts are possible within the game and making them can be done but would a daemon know the rubric spell.

[quote]

Yes, it is a very strong spell. There are no rules for it, but reading some fluff, a certain Greater Daemon of Tzeentch
or Daemon Prince of Tzeentch could possibly know the spell. But...... How would your Char know what the spell is unless it's OOC? Any spell the Daemon casts, he can call it Rubric of Ahriman even though it is only a summon minor spirit spell. [quote]

 

 

I see your point here i do run this risk the reason why my character may know is that his mind was whiped from a truly good guy to be evil by Tzeentch sorceer who worked for the Thousand Suns but we have not had the chance to upgrade our selfs yet so i thought i get FBL warp or somthing that would help me with this. The other PC chracter is an evil hertic who knows deamonolgy, and anouther PC a former right hand of a Thounsend Sun sorcerer who is know the Senisal, so my chracter may know of it but the others will know more. p.s our Rouge trader tolterly walked blindly into this one btw. LOL :D
 

I also wish to know which amour is the most cheapest and sealed to give to all the ship crew except for the none essentials to an silent automaton army of death, cooks toilet cleaners.

Probably void suits.

yeah it seems that way but you always need a boarding party of death and descrution.

would automatons improve the ship by any chance? :D


Do you mean servitors? If so, then yes in some instances, and no in others. Yes being they are not affected by Morale, mind controlling devices, and a few other things, and no because they do not have full cognitive thinking and are merely one track (maybe 3 or 4) minded creations.

Yeah i ment once the spell was cast but it works in the same manor you've just told me so i was think of keeping the Sorcerers alive as it sounds like thier is alot of them :lol: on the ship. but it does depend if they could control the spells awsome power.
We met what apears to be a thounsend sons sorccer so perhaps we should trick him into helping us a were know 8 year back in the past :lol: bad navigator roles.

Yeah perhaps i should post this in black crusade but we're knidia half in and half out atm but our plan should work to convert the whole ship. :P Plus the Gm also can a run a pirate prince Quest line which i think still uses some RT rules for the ship and stuff but yeah it looks like it's going that way. My character was void master willing to blow up the ship before he let fall to chaos it's quite sad realy. :( also thanks for the adivce. :)

Edited by nagumyrehal, 29 October 2013 - 10:21 AM.


#5 venkelos

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:19 PM

One little hurdle; Tzeentch sort of didn't like that spell. Ahriman thought he was doing something good, and Tzeentch didn't stop him, and got some rather cheesy CSMs out of the bargain, but the very idea of them, eternal, unchanging suits, I don't think Tzeentch, or any of his Daemons, are likely to help with this; they'd rather you be able to mutate like mad. Ahriman was banished by his Chapter Master, Magnus the Red, for the "damage" he did to the Chapter, and while Tzeentch has certainly gained more followers of the CSM persuasion since, there have never been more Rubric Marines; they can actually be repaired, and draw their soul back in, like DC Comic's Captain Atom.

 

Rubric Marines are also slow, nigh-mindless, and such, so doing that to your crew is hideous, and if that isn't a problem, also diminishing. Without Sorcerers to guide them, Rubric Marines don't do much, or quickly. Manning stations, reading screens, anything mental/social might be beyond them. However, any fool dumb enough to board that ship will have to deal with relentless, implacable soldiers.


Edited by venkelos, 29 October 2013 - 12:22 PM.


#6 Nameless2all

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:35 PM

Np. What I meant by BC is that maybe there are some rules, abilities, talents, etc that could help you with this concept of casting Rubric of Ahriman. All I know is that there are no rules in Rt for summoning daemons, it's only in DH. And DH doesn't explain anything else other than the raw power a bound daemon has. So for favors and information, maybe BC rules have something that you can pilfer from. Good luck. Sounds like an intriguing plan, and i would love to hear how it all plays out.

For a collection of fan created material, please refer to the link below. Some of it was edited/created by myself and friends, while most is other fan material. Happy gaming people.https://drive.google.com<p>-"May your endeavors always be prosperous, though they may not always be profitable."


#7 nagumyrehal

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 04:25 PM

One little hurdle; Tzeentch sort of didn't like that spell. Ahriman thought he was doing something good, and Tzeentch didn't stop him, and got some rather cheesy CSMs out of the bargain, but the very idea of them, eternal, unchanging suits, I don't think Tzeentch, or any of his Daemons, are likely to help with this; they'd rather you be able to mutate like mad. Ahriman was banished by his Chapter Master, Magnus the Red, for the "damage" he did to the Chapter, and while Tzeentch has certainly gained more followers of the CSM persuasion since, there have never been more Rubric Marines; they can actually be repaired, and draw their soul back in, like DC Comic's Captain Atom.

 

Rubric Marines are also slow, nigh-mindless, and such, so doing that to your crew is hideous, and if that isn't a problem, also diminishing. Without Sorcerers to guide them, Rubric Marines don't do much, or quickly. Manning stations, reading screens, anything mental/social might be beyond them. However, any fool dumb enough to board that ship will have to deal with relentless, implacable soldiers.

 

yeah i see your point but tbf Tzeench may find it funny or not even care for mere mortals of a rouge trader ship. but if thoese deamons are traped in a body then i doubt they would not want out lol. but thanks for advice. ship crew would be funny to see once boarded. lol

 

Np. What I meant by BC is that maybe there are some rules, abilities, talents, etc that could help you with this concept of casting Rubric of Ahriman. All I know is that there are no rules in Rt for summoning daemons, it's only in DH. And DH doesn't explain anything else other than the raw power a bound daemon has. So for favors and information, maybe BC rules have something that you can pilfer from. Good luck. Sounds like an intriguing plan, and i would love to hear how it all plays out.

 

thanks and don't worry i will most deffently will.


Edited by nagumyrehal, 29 October 2013 - 04:25 PM.


#8 memespawn

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 06:26 PM

The easiest way to do it mechanically would probably be to take the "servitor crew" upgrade from Into The Storm & just handwave them as sorcerous, as opposed to mechanical automatons.



#9 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:01 AM

Sounds about right. In terms of competency, Rubricae are essentially servitors.

 

One thing I'll warn you; this isn't a simple spell - it took a cabal of thousand sons, led by Ahriman - the most powerful sorceror in 40k to broadly fall under the category of 'mortal' - to achieve this. Creating a single Rubric servant is probably not too difficult, but you're talking about flashing it across an entire starship crew- tens of thousands of people. Essentially, not far short of the original. Replicating it is a massive, massive deal. Firstly, 'generic daemon' would neither know the spell nor be able to cast it. A daemon who is aware of the secrets of the Rubric is not going to be something the party is going to be able to summon....

 

....actually, scratch that. A daemon who is aware of the secrets of the Rubric is not going to be something the party is going to be able to bind or compel. You might be able to summon it but you have literally not a prayer of controlling it once you do. We're talking Chi'Kami'Tzann Tsu'Noi levels of power here.

 

Finding the secrets of the Rubricae is a major endeavour in and of itself - you're talking about the most potent ritual ever cast by the most gifted mortal sorcerors in history, the knowledge of which is (a) probably likely to cause nosebleeds and/or instantaneous insanity and (b) is pretty much the definition of 'extra heresy'.

 

Casting it even more so.

 

Lastly...how can I put this....Tzeench did like that spell. Magnus didn't, because it killed off 90% of his legion (or 90% of what was left of it after Russ was through with them). Tzeench actually intervenes to save Ahriman - the quote is "Magnus, you would smash my pawns too easily". Ahriman, for that matter, didn't like the Rubric. The spell was supposed to save the legion from mutation. He was aware there were risks, but It wasn't supposed to 'save' the legion by killing most of them.

 

To create your 'rubric crew', you're talking about summoning a massive amount of warp energy (as in 'sacrifice of nine hundred psykers' type energy) in a ritual you won't really understand, in accordance with instructions relayed to you by a daemon who's truthfulness you can't compel, and essentially hoping it does what you've been told it will.

 

Not that a daemon of Tzeench would ever, ever find a way to screw a supplicant on a deal...

 

....The tutelary say you need to drop your gellar field at this point in the ritual. Go on. Don't you trust him?

 

 

 

Examples:

 

"But not this bit" - How are the explorers intending to delineate the effects of the ritual? If they say "the crew of this ship", that does include them, after all...not that you need point that out to them.

 

"You never said 'loyal' " - Ahriman and co can dominate the Rubricae because (a) they're brothers who were bound by gene-seed and (b) Ridiculously epic psykers. Assuming you manage to create invulnerable armoured automatons, how do they intend to control them?

 

"Actually...we've decided to invest elsewhere" - there are, you said, numerous Tzeenchian cultists amongst the crew of the ship. Supposing the daemon decided to favour them? Let the explorers exhaust or flat-out annihalate themselves (and the lower-ranked crew) and then his pet cultists from the officer's deck can walk in and take control of the ship.

 

"Yeah...I'm the other daemon." - A group of cultists will intervene in the ritual to disrupt it, in the hopes of embarrasing/binding/killing the daemon helping the explorers. Granted, the feedback from a failed ritual would blast the explorers (and their attackers, not that they know it) to spawndom, but they're only mortals - trapping a rival daemon in the derelict ship for nine hundred and ninety-nine years is worth it.

 

"Oh....you wanted it to be permanent!" - The rubricae fall apart after ninety-nine days. During a warp jump.


Edited by Magnus Grendel, 31 October 2013 - 04:03 AM.

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#10 nagumyrehal

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 03:24 PM

well guys i can tell you no spell happened a simple warp jump by the rouge trader and scintila's dock and some of the plantet and two battel crusers or somthing along thoese line got sucked in. Because of this we went to malfi to which a inquestership discovered all our psykers because the inqusitor was himself a psyker and we were basicaly we were F so in turn me and the techmarine psyker and all the soreerers on the ship hastly tryred to bind a deamon to ship but failed the roll and bomb we summoned ship deamon of death which was subserquntly destoryed. But hay plans for through with choas like i don't know a black crusade perhaps. lol :D






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