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#61 Terraneaux

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 01:33 PM

Tau Drones have a mind, just no soul.  Kind of like Necrons, I'd think.  



#62 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 01:57 PM

They have sophisticated moving bits that process information. They're computers. Do Force Weapons attack that?

 

BTW they should also affect Land Raiders if this is the case, esp. because LRs have actual organic parts.

 

At least formerly Necrons had a "spirit," I think. Or am misremembering something?



#63 Terraneaux

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:15 PM

I am fuzzy as to whether or not Necrons have souls.  I mean, at one point the C'tan were eating them, but I'm not sure if they still have them. 

 

Good point about the Land Raider.  The most accurate source to go to would probably be the old GW Rogue Trader rulebooks, as that's where force weapons come from IIRC.  Mine are in storage so I can't check as to whether or not they affected vehicles back then.



#64 Terraneaux

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 05:33 PM

Just checked it, in RT Force Weapons worked just fine against vehicles...



#65 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 06:14 PM

The question is how to translit this. vehicles don't have a Willpower score, and an Opposed Test vs. WP0 doesn't seem right...



#66 Terraneaux

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 07:27 PM

To be fair, that was back before you had the pseudo-psychic power insta-kill on the force weapons.  

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that the force weapon + psy rating to pen and damage shnouldn't work against vehicles.



#67 Cifer

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 08:05 PM

Specifically regarding the Titan example: Anyone who doesn't Ward a machine that expensive against warp attacks deserves what he gets.



#68 Drachdhar

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:27 PM

Considering Void Shields, I was referring to the existing rules for Titans, in the only W40k RPG that has em... Ie Deathwatch if I remember correctly. There each layer of Void Shield absorbed a set amount of dmg each turn, think it was 40 or 50. Now a Titan has a few layers of Void Shields, depending on make and model. So yes, Force Storm with Aegis flattens em pretty fast.

 

And then we can go to the closest thing in BC, The Auruntaur(or some such) in Tome of Fate, or that Slaaneshi daemon engine in Tome of Excess, or that badass Daemon Engine in Tome of Blood. All of those are mentioned to be almost Titan size anyway and a Force Storm + Aegis would flatten them in an instant.

 

 

And with regards to Force Weapons vs Vehicles, against normal vehicles no extra dmg test possible. Against daemon engines, sure thing. Granted the bonus to dmg and Pen from Psy-Rating would still be there, since that is a "sharpening" effect IMO.

On the other hand, one could rule that the Force effect is just a massive amount of killing energy being released, in which case it would work against vehicles and other soulless thinga'ma'bobs... And not something that cuts the spirit of the target...

 

But then again, in most RPGs we have to live with slight inconsistencies like this. DnD Halfling Rogue with daggers vs Dragon and Backstabs, rules-wise perfectly legal - does it make sense, hells no. Friend of mine killed an Ancient Dragon that way, granted if I was GM it would never have happened.

 

//Necrons are completely soulless. They are machines pure and simple, sometimes sentient and all that jazz, but still machines. Its partially why the Ad-Mech considers them such abominations, no "Machine-Spirit". All their souls were munched by the C'tan during the Biotransference. Actually they used to be even more soulless than that back in 3rd edition, they were back then basically the inventors of the Pariah gene.



#69 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 09:12 PM

It doesn't flatten them. (Well it might, but it is not clearly stated how they work.)

 

What it says is that the void shield stays up until it is brought down.

 

It does _not_ say that excess damage from the attack goes through past it (which is exactly how force fields function, since they block _attacks_ and not _hits_. If you hit a force field with a full auto burst, if you Overload it, some of the shots do not fly through and hit the target).

 

In other words, your Force Storm will blast the shield and overload it.

 

Then you have to fire another Force Storm to overload the second shield.

 

Only THEN can you attack the Titan itself.

 

(Which BTW is how ship void shields function in Rogue Trader as well, which is why I am pretty sure about this.)

 

BTW Khorne Daemon Engines are immune to psychic powers, period.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 15 January 2014 - 09:14 PM.


#70 Drachdhar

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 04:06 PM

Actually Void Shields discounts hits, and since Force Storm does multiple hits... 1-2 hits per layer of Void Shield. And that is how it works in RT as well. 

Macrocannons are capable of multiple hits up to their Strength number, and if you put in a good Broadside you might smash through every layer of Void Shield. Say you get in 3 hits with one Macrobattery/Broadside and the ship you're firing on has Void Shields with rating 2, one hit still gets through to do dmg. And every other weapon your vessel fires that same turn will also go through. Just check the example on p.221 Rogue Trader Core.

 

Granted, the dmg from hits on that hits the Void Shield does not carry over. So for example one hit does 37 dmg and the next does 35 - enough to collapse the first layer in total. Then the next layer takes 1 or 2 more hits. If you fire a Force Storm with 10 hits, thats still 6 hits that go straight through - with Warp Weapon that would be some major dmg on said Titan, with Psy Rating 10 190-250 dmg. 

 

Yeh those Khorne machines are imba that way... Argument still valid though vs the rest of the Titanesque Daemon Engines.



#71 Drachdhar

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 04:11 PM

Ie hits are not totalled for dmg... A full auto burst of four hits counts as four individual attacks when it comes to dmg.

 

Unless it's a Macrocannon, but even then it is after counting away hits for Void Shields...






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