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Nightgaunt question (A new one, I think!)


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#1 countermeasures

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:17 AM

I apologize if this question has been asked, possibly multiple times- I can't find an answer anywhere.

There are a lot of questions about Nightgaunts helping/hindering, OW Encounters, Arkham Encounters, and the like, but I ran into a scenario over the weekend and I want to be sure I played it right.

I had an investigator in a street area of Arkham, and a Nightgaunt hanging out in the sky waiting to strike. Mythos Phase comes around, monster movement... BAM, Nightgaunt swoops down and we have ourselves a little skirmish in the streets.

I failed the combat check and was drawn through the nearest gate, as per protocol. I have since confirmed through the official rules/FAQs, that you are not delayed when this happens, as you're being carried and can see what's happening and all that, so I played that part right.

The issue arose when I realized- I'm an an Other World BEFORE the movement phase... So, after the Mythos and Upkeep phases are through and it's time to move my investigators, I couldn't think of a good reason why my investigator wouldn't move to the second area of the OW BEFORE having my first OW encounter!

I've noticed that in most circumstances, the rules seem to always try to find a way to force you to have two OW encounters (unless the first encounter, or a spell, or something sends you back to Arkham right away), but in this case- I was there, I wasn't delayed, and it was the movement phase. So I moved my investigator to the second area of the OW and had my encounter there during the OW Encounter phase.

Did I miss something, or is this just one of the several Nightgaunt loopholes?

 

Thanks for any feedback!


Edited by countermeasures, 23 October 2013 - 11:19 AM.


#2 Joseph_Lavode

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:28 AM

Combat doesn't occur until the movement phase. So the nightgaunt swoops down in the Mythos phase, but you don't fight it until movement.

 

ETA: In some cases combat can occur in other phases, due to encounters, for example, but for monsters wandering the table it only occurs in the movement phase.


Edited by Joseph_Lavode, 23 October 2013 - 11:31 AM.

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#3 Schwaig

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:30 AM

Allthough the Nightgaunt may have moved in the Mythos phase, the combat between your investigator and the Nightgaunt takes not place immediately but in the next movement phase (if you choose not to evade). So if you fail this combat than you should be in the Other World before the phase 'Other World encounters' and therefore have an encounter in the first round you get there. So you will have a total of two encounters before you can leave it again.


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#4 countermeasures

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:34 AM

Combat doesn't occur until the movement phase. So the nightgaunt swoops down in the Mythos phase, but you don't fight it until movement.

 

ETA: In some cases combat can occur in other phases, due to encounters, for example, but for monsters wandering the table it only occurs in the movement phase.

 

 

Allthough the Nightgaunt may have moved in the Mythos phase, the combat between your investigator and the Nightgaunt takes not place immediately but in the next movement phase (if you choose not to evade). So if you fail this combat than you should be in the Other World before the phase 'Other World encounters' and therefore have an encounter in the first round you get there. So you will have a total of two encounters before you can leave it again.

 


Thank you both. I figured it was something simple like me mixing up the phases. Thematically, I can't see that it makes much sense that way, I've been playing that you fight/evade the monster when you encounter it and it hadn't led to any complications up until the Nightgaunt issue, but looks like I'll have to correct my playing!

Thank you guys for the clarification!


Edited by countermeasures, 23 October 2013 - 11:35 AM.


#5 Joseph_Lavode

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:44 AM

It matters for gameplay purposes. Mainly because combat stops movement. Once combat begins, your investigator's movement is over for the turn, meaning you can't finish off a monster or two, then move somewhere and have an encounter/pick up clues/whatever. And thematically, being in the same area as a monster doesn't mean you're in the same room, street sections, etc, so in your movement phase you have a chance to try to evade the beast and leave the area, or sneak around the area, without it finding you.

 

Again, though, this doesn't apply to monsters fought during an encounter. Those are fought or evaded immediately.


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#6 The Professor

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:40 PM

Also, as a point of interpretation...regardless of the FAQ Tome...when I attended Arkham Nights a few years ago, about half of the table agreed that the Nightgaunt followed you into the gate (and returned to the Monster Cup, while the other half decided that the Nightgaunt stayed-put.  I play it the former, not the latter, way...I'm interested in how others play it since we're on the subject.

 

Cheers,

Joe


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#7 Joseph_Lavode

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 02:09 AM

I always play that the nightgaunt returns to the cup, myself.


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#8 Julia

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 02:50 AM

I play the other way round, the Nightgaunt stays where it is, since it's not specified anywhere that the monster follows you and then disappears. Thematically I see the reasons for the way you play, but still, I prefer the monster to stay on the board (and give me problems with the monster limit and stuff like that)


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#9 The Professor

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 04:34 AM

That's kinda how I thought people would respond...there's no 'hard and fast' rule, but I'm always curious of fellow Arkhamites' interpretations out on the periphery of the main rule-set.


Edited by The Professor, 24 October 2013 - 04:34 AM.

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#10 countermeasures

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:52 AM

I've only played where the Nightgaunt returns to where it was when the fight took place. Though I suppose for thematics this doesn't make the most sense. I agree with Julia's point about the monster limit too.

Two other options I may start considering for thematic purposes - The Nightgaunt could drop you through the nearest gate, and then return to the Sky area of the board. Since it would already be flying, it doesn't make sense with the rest of the flying monster movement rules to return to a spot that might be literally on a different board from the gate you were tossed through.

Or, it could drop you through the gate and then just hang out outside the gate until its dimensional symbol shows up, or you come back through and choose to engage it in combat.

 

Just a couple ideas!



#11 The Professor

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:18 AM

countermeasures,

 

     All good, all completely fine interpretations...you're getting the hang of this game.

 

Cheers,

Joe


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#12 Dr.Faust

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 03:15 AM

I play the other way round, the Nightgaunt stays where it is, since it's not specified anywhere that the monster follows you and then disappears. Thematically I see the reasons for the way you play, but still, I prefer the monster to stay on the board (and give me problems with the monster limit and stuff like that)

 

I think this would make it easier, not harder... BD You sneaky devil you~!



#13 Julia

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 04:06 AM

 

I play the other way round, the Nightgaunt stays where it is, since it's not specified anywhere that the monster follows you and then disappears. Thematically I see the reasons for the way you play, but still, I prefer the monster to stay on the board (and give me problems with the monster limit and stuff like that)

 

I think this would make it easier, not harder... BD You sneaky devil you~!

 

 

Me? :flapping innocently eyelids:

 

Uhh... yeah, it'd also be seen as easier, I guess :whistle:


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#14 Tox

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:31 PM

The Nightgaunt stays where the combat happened, because it's not that specific Gaunt that carries you to the gate...it's the rest of its pals...brothers...things that grab your helpless body and carry you all the way to the gate (see Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath)

 

How's that for a conciliatory solution for theme AND rules? :)

 

p.s. I play it this way.



#15 The Professor

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 03:28 PM

very conciliatory...but I'll stick with my interpretation and my Nightgaunt friends to whisk me away :lol:


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#16 Wolfgar

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:39 PM

I play Night Gaunt stays put. For me, pinning by monsters ups the challenge.


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#17 Nainphy

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 05:36 PM

I know the FAQ says you won't get delayed if you fail a nightgaunt attack. But the reason i think you should be delayed when a gate opens beneath your character it's because s/he wasn't expecting that. And i think noone is expecting to go to a portal when the nightgaunt attacks (you are fighting a monster without knowing of what his capable of doing with you - thinking like a RPG game). Your character wasn't expecting to enter in a portal. I'm against the not delayed rule by a nightgaunt's attack. The rule should be: everytime a character enters in a portal when s/he isn't expecting, s/he becomes delayed (dizzying off/stunned). For me, the nightgaunt has a "teleport" attack, when the creature touches you, it teleports you for the nearest portal. And the creature stays on the board.

But though i'm against with the "not delayed rule", i play with it.



#18 Julia

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 06:50 PM

The rule for delaying investigators when gates open beneath them was created to avoid investigators entering an OW during the Mythos phase, casting Find gate in the next Movement Phase and returning to Arkham without having any encounter while in the OW

 

FAQ, Dunwich, pag. 10:

Q: Why is an investigator delayed when a gate opens up in their location, but not delayed if he enters the gate normally?
A: If the investigator was not delayed by a gate opening up in his location, he would be able to get through the Other World having only one Other World Encounter rather than two.

 

So, technically, there is no need to "fix the thing" for Nightgaunts: at least one encounter in the OW is granted (and that's one of the many reasons the latest Nightgaunt + Find Gate FAQ left many puzzled). Thematically, there is no surprise effect: the gates are already on the table, so that an investigator entering in combat with a Nightgaunt knwos he could be teleported. Hence, the "non delay"

 

Hope this has sense :)


Edited by Julia, 18 December 2013 - 03:31 AM.

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#19 Nainphy

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 08:02 PM

About the find gate spell. Can i use it in the same round i enter in a portal? So i can enter in a portal using my movement phase, use the find gate spell still in my movement phase and finally can i close/seal this portal in the encounter phase of this same round? If this is correct, this spell is kind of overpower even with a sanity cost of 1.


Edited by Nainphy, 17 December 2013 - 08:07 PM.


#20 ceridan13

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:29 AM

About the find gate spell. Can i use it in the same round i enter in a portal? So i can enter in a portal using my movement phase, use the find gate spell still in my movement phase and finally can i close/seal this portal in the encounter phase of this same round? If this is correct, this spell is kind of overpower even with a sanity cost of 1.

Nope, you can't do this the same turn you entered OW, because you move through the gate on your Arkham Encounter phase and Find Gate is only castable during your Movement phase (not Upkeep, Julia). That means you'll have at least one OW encounter before you are able to cast Find Gate next turn.






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