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Template off the board but model not at the end...

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#21 CrookedWookie



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Posted 24 October 2013 - 02:26 PM

If all of your statements are true then why does the rule in the book say " causes any part of it's base to go outside the play area" neiher the rulebook or FAQ say "causes any part of it's base to end up outside the play area" it clearly says "to go". I'll wait for an official ruling from FFG becaue no the FAQ does not clearly cover this. All page 4 of the FAQ proves is that yes if your ship would end overlapping another and travels back til it is no longer overlapping said ship, but it's base now has any part outside the play area it is treated as "Fleed the Battlefield"

As I think he/I/we have been trying to explain, there's nothing in the rules that says anything about your movement template having any kind of interaction with the edge of the play area (the way it does with, say, an asteroid).  As you point out, it stresses in big bold letters in a couple of places that if any part of your ship's base "in its final position" is outside the play area it is considered to have fled (not 'fleed,' btw) the battle.


There's nothing anywhere in the rules to indicate that it matters at all if the template crosses the boundary of the play area, so as long as your ship starts fully in-bounds and ends fully in-bounds, there shouldn't be any problem, at least as the rules are currently written.  They could always clarify it in the next FAQ I guess.

#22 VanorDM


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Posted 24 October 2013 - 02:37 PM

They could always clarify it in the next FAQ I guess.

They could, but I don't see there is any need to do so. The rules are quite clear, and the FAQ does again mention that only the final position counts.

I think that Bjorn is getting caught on the term "to go" which in this case doesn't mean what he seems to think it does.

The fact that he feels that the normal rules don't apply in this case, even though there's nothing that actually says that, makes it clear he's putting way to much weight on that term.

#23 CrookedWookie



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Posted 24 October 2013 - 02:44 PM

I don't think they need to either.  I was just allowing for the possibility that, much as they clarified you can't boost or barrel roll out of bounds, even if your subsequent maneuver brings you back into play, they could decide that if your template was going to cross it was an illegal move, or caused you to flee, or any number of things.

But like you said - that starts to get unnecessarily complicated, so my guess is all they really care about is that you start your maneuver in bounds (hence no boost or barrel roll out on your action) and end your move in bounds.  It's the simplest, cleanest way to handle it and I think it's definitely a case of "if it ain't broke..."

#24 D4rkt3mpl4r



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Posted 15 December 2013 - 03:48 PM

This came up during a game I was watching on Vassal today. The room was marked beginner room so as I was watched the conversation and one player tell the other that if any part of the ship "left the board at any time during its movement" it was gone, I felt the urge to speak up. He quoted page 17 in response and the last thing I wanted to do was start a debate during a friendly game so I just politely let it go.

Between the games I've watched and those I've played in my local meta final placement seems to be what I see. It's what I use. Do we think that's typical of most of the community?


#25 VanorDM


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Posted 16 December 2013 - 09:20 AM

He quoted page 17 in response and the last thing I wanted to do was start a debate during a friendly game so I just politely let it go.

The guy who said that any time during it's movement quoted page 17?]

Because as far as I know it's commonly accepted that a space between the start and end of the template effectively doesn't exist. Unless you land on something. Even when dealing with obstacles the rule doesn't care where the ship is, only that the template itself has overlapped the obstacle.

The rules for a maneuver are pretty clear, and again seem to be commonly accepted. You place the template at the base of the ship, then pick it up and place it at the other end of the template.

I thought this was actually covered in the FAQ but I couldn't find it.

I understand you not wanting to start a debate in a game you weren't playing. But I don't know if I could of done the same thing. The rules are pretty clear and the person who said that, clearly doesn't know them as well as he or she thinks.

#26 StevenO



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Posted 16 December 2013 - 05:16 PM

"All that is required for evil to fester is for good people to turn the other way."


I'm sorry but while you may have wanted to "stay out" to me the only proper course of action would be to point out the play error and perhaps do a little educating.  Maybe they wouldn't have listened but perhaps they may have said "Oh, so that is how you are supposed to play it?  I guess we've always been doing it incorrectly."


It also really chaps my hide when someone is making erroneous rules claims when it benefits himself.  It is one thing if you find your template "going off the edge" and then believe that ship is destroyed but to me it is completely different when your opponent's template "goes off the edge" and then you tell him that his ship has left the field.  One is you penalizing yourself and the other is you punishing an opponent for not standing up to your erroneous ruling.  In a game between newbies, especially newbies, you should provide proper rule support whenever possible as it can help curb a rude awakening later when they find out they've been doing something wrong the whole time and it is now biting them when it matters.

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#27 Imagined Realms

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 08:42 AM

Sorry to resurrect such as old thread, but as a relatively new player I ran into this situation for the first on my first Vassal game tonight.


In this case, it was my ship that was at risk but I was actually under the impression that I'd lose it (for clarity's sake, it was only the template that went out; the ship started and ended inside).


My opponent and a couple of observers were very cool about it and actually thought i *wouldn't* lose the ship for the reasons mentioned in this thread...but we weren't 100% sure.


just wondering if in the time that has elapsed, has anyone had this confirmed one way or the other in a tournament event or similar?


Any help appreciated..

Come visit me at Imagined Realms.

#28 Sergovan


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Posted 28 March 2014 - 10:12 AM

As has been stated in my previous post in this thread, movement only counts with your bases final position for fleeing the battlefield - the template does not count. However, if you overlap a ship and have to move back along your template to clear your base and you end up outside the play area, you have fled the battlefield and would be destroyed.


You also can't use Advanced sensors and barrel roll/boost out of bound and then try to use your maneuver to jump back inbounds - you are immediately destroyed before you flip your dial over to reveal your maenuver.

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