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Beginner In Need Of Serious Help


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#1 AshfordComplex

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:44 PM

I've been playing this game for a couple of weeks now and I have recently bought all the sets. So, I've been failing miserably at the deck building part of this because I'm too unsure at what to add and what not to and my friends are trying to help but can tell I'm not getting it. So, I've come here. Right now I just started over from scratch because I clearly can't work a virus build for my life. So I'm going with something similar and making a Criminal deck because I play very aggressive with my runners; and for my corp I tried to build an NBN deck with Scorched Earth, but it's horrible.

 

Criminal Deck: 45 Cards

Identity: Andromeda, Dispossessed Ristie

 

Programs: 14

[3] - Crescentus

[2] - Corroder

[2] - Gordian Blade

[1] - Battering Ram

[3] - Faerie

[2] - Femme Fatale

 

I don't like most of the icebreakers for Criminals because they cost more than they're worth, so I just used all my influence to add outside from Criminals. Also, I run Crescentus to unrez the more expensive ice I breakthrough and for Compromised Employee.

 

Resources: 10

[3] - Daily Casts

[2] - Kati Jones

[3] - Compromised Employee

[2] - Mr. Li

 

Mr. Li just to draw cards and for Hostage; same applies for Compromised and Kati to gain creds and Hostage, except I also use Compromised because a lot of my friends play cards that use a lot of traces. Daily Casts is just a nice overall gain for creds, but I might lower it down to 2 if I can find another thing that gives me creds faster.

 

Hardware: 3

[2] - Plascrete Carapace

[1] - Desperado

 

Someone told me not to use Doppelganger even though it seems much better to use over Desperado, but I just listened to them and did it anyway. Also, I got hit four times with Scorched Earth and got sick of it so I use Carapace.

 

Events: 18

[3] - Forged Activation Orders

[3] - Inside Job

[3] - Sure Gamble

[3] - Hostage

[1] - Special Orders

[3] - Easy Mark

[2] - Account Siphon

 

Forged and Inside Job are nice to get around things; Hostage gets out things pretty quick especially since most my resources are connections. Gamble was obvious, but I'm still heads and tails over Easy Mark because I feel I can replace it with something better. I'm also questioning Account Siphon because I never seem to time it right.

 

NBN Deck: 45 Cards

Identity: NBN, Making News

 

Agendas: 12

[2] - Project Beale (2)

[2] - Character Assassination (2)

[2] - Breaking News (1)

[2] - AstroScript Pilot Program (2)

[2] - Gila Hands Arcology (1)

[2] - Corporate War (2)

 

So I was told that adding so many 3 pointers was a bad idea, especially with what I'm doing with my deck (which I've only succeeded once). I took them all out, but I don't feel good about this either because now my deck has too many agendas.

 

Ice: 15

[3] - Tollbooth

[3] - Uroboros

[3] - Dataspike

[3] - Bastion

[3] - Enigma

 

I used to run Draco because I can up its strength, but I was spending too much to stop an unsure thing with its trace. I don't like this setup because I don't draw a lot of my ice out because of the low number and the number of agendas I have in this deck to protect. Also, NBN doesn't have any good ice except Tollbooth

 

Assets: 5

[3] - Jackson Howard

[2] - Melange Mining Corp

 

Jackson Howard's just too good and the Mining thing is nice for the creds and bait.

 

Operations: 13

[3] - Scorched Earth

[2] - Closed Accounts

[3] - Hedge Fund

[3] - Green Level Clearance

[2] - Sea Source

 

Yeah, I still have no idea whether I should keep closed accounts or not, but I added Clearance because its just a decent and quick cred getter and draw. I've used Sea Source a few times to get in a tag, but never drew Earth at the right moment.

 

So, the Corp needs a lot more work than my runner and I could REALLY use help for it, but I would like feedback and fixes for both.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#2 Dunhere

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:17 PM

Criminal:

 

Plan out your max memory usage based on your available memory.  You have only one console and 7(+) MU worth of programs.  Cut a fractor and add more copies of your console.

 

Gordian Blade is a lot of influence.  You can run on Yog.0 and some datasuckers, which are also good for Femme.

 

Don't discount Ninja when setting up your killer mix.

 

1 Special Order is not enough without some AI breakers.

 

Keep practicing with Account Siphon, rather than cutting it.

 

 

NBN:

 

You don't have enough dependable ways to land the tag to set up the Scorch/Closed Accounts.

 

You don't have enough ICE.  You have too many code gates vulnerable to Yog.

 

You don't have enough cash to use Corporate War.  Not that you want to in this deck anyway.  Focus your agendas into 3x the better ones, instead of a mix of 1x and 2x.



#3 CommissarFeesh

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 03:15 AM

Dunhere, you're assuming the OP has more than one Core set, which may not be the case.

 

AshfordComplex, I don't play Criminal, but I'd certainly agree with most of what Dunhere has said - you can definitely afford to lose Battering Ram if you're using Corroder. You'll almost never want both installed, Corroder is a brutally efficient fracter, and costs less MU.

 

Faerie is really good for early facechecking, but don't discount the value of Crypsis in your early game (yes he's expensive to use, but in the opening turns it makes EVERY server available to you, which puts the Corp under a lot of pressure. You'll supplement or replace him later in the game.)

 

Account Siphon is a superb card - if you want to cut it you'll need an excellent reason, learning when to use it is probably better than losing it. A turn one or turn two Siphon can set you up for a very strong early advantage. Watch out for those tags though; you don't want to lose your resources to it (unless the Corp player is horribly poor and you already have a big credit advantage, then if they're spending clicks and creds to trash you're still ahead).

 

I don't know how different Andy is to Gabe, but if I was running Special Order I'd take more. Each copy is like adding another of EVERY icebreaker to your deck, letting you get the program you need when you need it.

 

It might be worth dropping some of the Contacts and Hostages and replace with Dirty Laundry or Bank Job - Criminal seems to do well from big, fast cash injections.

 

Ok, NBN I actually play, although I don't pretend to be an expert. I'll share what I do know though.

 

Corporate War is a liability. Also, seeing as you're running Scorch NBN, Private Security Force is a much better support than Corporate War for this tactic (you can chip away at an installed Plastcrete before you get your combo together).

 

You are VERY light on ICE. With Green Level Clearance and Jackson Howard, it's probably worth going up to 49 cards and making up the numbers with ICE to get there (you have enough draw power to hunt for agendas/scorches when you need to). Saying that, Jackson may be enough by himself and it might be worth freeing up those GLC influence points for something like Ice Wall for early protection, or Aggressive Negotiation for getting your kill combo.

 

How easy are you finding it to defend Melange Mining? I can't protect it long enough in my own NBN; I replaced it with Private Contracts (which has the added benefit of being soft protection against Account Siphon - rez it after they commit but before they take your cash). Popup Window is also great for feeding you cash.

 

You want more ways to tag, be it ICE or operations. Midseason Replacements (timed right) is great for keeping the runner tagged for a good while, but you have to give up an agenda for it. Tagging ICE will help (Data Raven is really good in a tag n bag deck).

 

Finally, if you're running a Scorch deck, don't throw SEA source out UNLESS you're going for the kill - it's a waste of a card. Your ideal situation is a runner with 7 'hit points' (cards + plastcrete tokens) or less at the start of your turn, at which point you SEA+Scorch+Scorch.

 

One last thing is if you're going for dedicated Tag n Bag, it might be worth trying to reduce the number of Agenda cards in deck (giving the runner less chance to nab them from R&D) which would mean using the big ones (Priority Req, Restructured Datapool) which does go against the advice you had before, but may be worth exploring. Whichever way you swing on agendas you're running a risk; either you risk give away lots but they're worth less, or you risk giving away lots of points at a time but les often. Find the style that works for you. Consider also that less agendas means more room for more ICE.



#4 frybender

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 08:30 AM

Everything that has been said so far is correct so I don't have a whole lot to add so I just wanted to say that looking at your deck it looks like you have a single core set (2 astroscripts, 2 Account siphons, 1 desperado) if you want to start playing this game competitively you will absolutely want to get a second core set (and if you want to play certain decks you will probably want to get a 3rd for that 3rd desperado and 3rd sansan but it's not totally essential). 



#5 nungunz

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 07:06 PM

Some decent advice so far!

 

 

 

Criminal Deck: 45 Cards

Identity: Andromeda, Dispossessed Ristie

 

Programs: 14

[3] - Crescentus

[2] - Corroder

[2] - Gordian Blade

[1] - Battering Ram

[3] - Faerie

[2] - Femme Fatale

 

I don't like most of the icebreakers for Criminals because they cost more than they're worth, so I just used all my influence to add outside from Criminals. Also, I run Crescentus to unrez the more expensive ice I breakthrough and for Compromised Employee.

 

 

That's a lot of programs with a lot of memory.  Also criminals want to hit hard and fast right away and be able to threaten all severs to force the corp to spread their defenses (which is why I like datasucker a lot).

 

Battering ram really isn't needed.  I'd drop it.  3 Crescentus really isn't needed, either, but can be fun, I guess.  I'd go with maybe 1 fem or 1 ninja.

 

Criminal ice breakers are expesive (but they have some of the best sentry breakers).  I'm more a fan of the anarch fixed breakers + datasucker, but I can see this working.  If you take 3 special order, I can see you cutting down to 1-ofs on the breakers.

 

 

Resources: 10

[3] - Daily Casts

[2] - Kati Jones

[3] - Compromised Employee

[2] - Mr. Li

 

Mr. Li just to draw cards and for Hostage; same applies for Compromised and Kati to gain creds and Hostage, except I also use Compromised because a lot of my friends play cards that use a lot of traces. Daily Casts is just a nice overall gain for creds, but I might lower it down to 2 if I can find another thing that gives me creds faster.

 

 

That is a lot of resources and I don't know about you, but I almost never shake Tags when running andromeda (or Gabe) as it wastes clicks and credits that could be better spent running and pressuring the corp.  I'd honestly go with 3 Kati Jones, though. 

 

 

Hardware: 3

[2] - Plascrete Carapace

[1] - Desperado

 

Someone told me not to use Doppelganger even though it seems much better to use over Desperado, but I just listened to them and did it anyway. Also, I got hit four times with Scorched Earth and got sick of it so I use Carapace.

 

 

I'd go with 3 copies of Desperado, thought you can get away with 2.  You really want to get this thing in your opening hand if possible.

 

2 Carapace is good.

 

Desperado by far is better than Doppelganger.  Doppleganger is situationally useful and even then not always.  Desperado is always useful and threatens every server.

 

 

Events: 18

[3] - Forged Activation Orders

[3] - Inside Job

[3] - Sure Gamble

[3] - Hostage

[1] - Special Orders

[3] - Easy Mark

[2] - Account Siphon

 

Forged and Inside Job are nice to get around things; Hostage gets out things pretty quick especially since most my resources are connections. Gamble was obvious, but I'm still heads and tails over Easy Mark because I feel I can replace it with something better. I'm also questioning Account Siphon because I never seem to time it right.

 

 

Account Siphon is hands-down the best runner card in the game.  I always run 3 of them and then I also use Same Old Thing at times just so I can use it again.

 

I'd drop Easy Mark for Dirty Laundry.

 

Emergency Shutdown is definitely something you'll want 3 copies of.

 

Hostage is nice, but I don't think it's really needed with the massive opening hand as you can end up with a lot of dead draws and have to pitch the cards.

 

Defintiely go for more Special Orders.

 

Maybe a one-of for infiltration just in case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NBN Deck: 45 Cards

Identity: NBN, Making News

 

Agendas: 12

[2] - Project Beale (2)

[2] - Character Assassination (2)

[2] - Breaking News (1)

[2] - AstroScript Pilot Program (2)

[2] - Gila Hands Arcology (1)

[2] - Corporate War (2)

 

So I was told that adding so many 3 pointers was a bad idea, especially with what I'm doing with my deck (which I've only succeeded once). I took them all out, but I don't feel good about this either because now my deck has too many agendas.

 

 

As was said before, Corporate War is a bit of a wash.

 

I'd go with 3 Beale and 3 Astroscripts instead.  Maybe drop Gila for a second Breaking News (Breaking News is awesome).  

 

The above changes let you also have a great chance of winning on Agendas as well as SE.  Having multiple attainable win-conditions is great.

 

Maybe swap 1 (or both) Character Assassinations for Private Security Force.

 

If you want, one 3-point agenda isn't bad either.

I

 

ce: 15

[3] - Tollbooth

[3] - Uroboros

[3] - Dataspike

[3] - Bastion

[3] - Enigma

 

I used to run Draco because I can up its strength, but I was spending too much to stop an unsure thing with its trace. I don't like this setup because I don't draw a lot of my ice out because of the low number and the number of agendas I have in this deck to protect. Also, NBN doesn't have any good ice except Tollbooth

 

 

Draco isn't bad as he can be used for account siphon defense and to deal with Atman decks.

 

You underestimate NBN ICE, they have many great Ice.  Tollbooth, Pop-up Window (amazing!), Data Raven, and Flare.  Uroboros is situational, as is Matrix Analyzer.  Honsestly the only bad ICE that NBN has is Data Hound and TMI.

 

I'd also try to sit at about 18 ICE if possible (17 isn't terrible).

 

Things like Caduceus and Ice Wall are great!  Rototurret is a good surprise to drop.  Eli 1.0 is excellent on central servers. Draco is a great counter to Atman.

 

Granted this is hard when all of your influence is being spent on SE.  Maybe more money-making assets? Definitely pack 3 pop-up windows.

 

 

 

Assets: 5

[3] - Jackson Howard

[2] - Melange Mining Corp

 

Jackson Howard's just too good and the Mining thing is nice for the creds and bait.

 

 

Your influence is being sucked up with scorched so I'd go with more money-making assets.  Pad or Marked Accounts would be good for drip-econ.  Private Contracts can also work.

 

 

 

Operations: 13

[3] - Scorched Earth

[2] - Closed Accounts

[3] - Hedge Fund

[3] - Green Level Clearance

[2] - Sea Source

 

Yeah, I still have no idea whether I should keep closed accounts or not, but I added Clearance because its just a decent and quick cred getter and draw. I've used Sea Source a few times to get in a tag, but never drew Earth at the right moment.

 

 

 

That's a good spread.

 

 

I'd love to see maybe Bernice Mai and/or SanSan City Grid in here.



#6 AshfordComplex

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:53 PM

Okay, so I've bought another starter set so I can get copies of the 2s and 1s cards (not buying another) and right now taking everyone's advice (thank you btw), this is what my current build looks like.

 

Criminal Identity: Andromeda, Dispossessed Ristie

Deck Size: 45

 

Programs: 13

[1] - Crypsis

[3] - Datasucker (3 influence total)

[1] - Femme Fatale

[2] - Ninja

[2] - Faerie

[2] - Yog.0 (2 influence total)

[2] - Corroder (4 influence total)

 

Hardware: 4

[2] - Desperado

[2] - Plascrete Carapace

 

Events: 19

[2] - Special Orders

[2] - Account Siphon

[2] - Hostage

[3] - Forged Activation Orders

[3] - Inside Job

[2] - Dirty Laundry

[3] - Sure Gamble

[2] - Kraken

 

Resources: 9

[2] - Kati Jones

[3] - Daily Casts

[2] - Professional Contacts  (4 Influence max)

[2] - Same Old Thing

 

NBN Identity: NBN, Making News

Deck Size: 49

 

Ice: 17

[3] - Tollbooth

[3] - Data Raven

[2] - Draco

[2] - Enigma

[2] - Wall of Static

[3] - Pop-Up Window

[2] - Flare

 

Agendas: 14 (20 pts)

[3] - AstroScript Pilot Program (2 pts each)

[3] - Project Beale (2 pts each}

[3] - Breaking News (1 pt each)

[2] - Gila Hands Arcology (1 pt each)

[3] - Character Assassination (1 pt each)

 

Assets: 5

[3] - Jackson Howard

[2] - Ghost Branch

 

Upgrade: 2

[2] - Bernice Mai

 

Operation: 11

[3] - Scorched Earth (12 influence total)

[2] - Sea Source

[3] - Hedge Fund

[3] - Green Level Clearance (3 influence total)


Edited by AshfordComplex, 24 October 2013 - 03:54 PM.


#7 nungunz

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 05:00 PM

Character Assassination is 2 points per agenda.  You are well over-stocked on agendas, you can cut some of them out.



#8 etherial

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 07:24 AM

Character Assassination is 2 points per agenda.  You are well over-stocked on agendas, you can cut some of them out.

In fact, he must cut 2-3 Agenda Points.



#9 AshfordComplex

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 07:31 AM

I don't know how. Every time I try to think of something I just end up back here.



#10 CommissarFeesh

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 09:56 AM

Pick Agendas whose abilities you think you need the least and start with those. I personally don't like 1-pointers, but they do have their place (and see play in VERY strong decks) it's just my preference.



#11 nungunz

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:47 PM

For NBN, I'm a fan of:

 

3 Project Beale

3 Astroscript

3 Breaking News

1 Character Assassination

1 Priority Requisition

 

But I don't play Tag 'n Bag so you'd probably want:

 

3 Project Beale

3 Astroscript

2 Breaking News

2 Private Security Force

 

Another 2-pointer of your choice.






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