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Starting a game with no tactical marines or devastators.


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#1 pearldrum1

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 08:01 PM

What problems will I encounter with this? Should I open my game to more players to fill the gap?

 

I have a Black Templar psyker (I know, I know), a Space Wolf Assault Marine, an Ultramarine TechMarine who exhibits all the traits of a natural leader, a normal human cross over from DH Ascension, and an Daughters of Death (custom female chapter) Apothecary.

 

Edit: Words is hard.


Edited by pearldrum1, 20 October 2013 - 05:13 PM.


#2 Kshatriya

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 10:25 PM

Tacmarines...kinda suck, imo. Jacks of all trades, masters of none, which has never been my interest point in a game but to each his own. They can plug holes pretty well. They're OK but not necessary in a game the way they are in the fluff, ESPECIALLY not after everyone can buy the Forging the Bond Talent and benefit from other Chapters' Squad Modes (albeit at higher cost, but Cohesion is laughably easy to stockpile to absurd levels under the RAW).

 

Devastators are a little different, I consider them pretty important especially as they are the most effective Specialty to deal with Hordes. It will probably be easier to overwhelm a party lacking a Devastator with hordes than without, and hordes above Magnitude 20 get exponentially deadlier with every +10 Magnitude, such that they need an effective PC counter. That being said, psykers are an excellent horde counter, and anyone can bring along a heavy flamer or heavy bolter. And properly-built assault marines can chew through hordes too, but they'll be at higher risk since horde melee attacks cannot be dodged/parried (unless you're a Tyrannic War Veteran).

Really you have your most important specialties: Apothecary (to keep everyone alive, and even decent at in-combat healing too) and Techmarine (for all the special technical stuff that most Astartes can't learn early on). Both of them are still efficient deathdealers too! 

 

As to your mortal character: DW and Ascension do not play well together, in part because of mortal squishiness, in part because a mortal skillmoney will remove any skill-related challenge that might actually frustrate an Astarte, in part because Ascension is not a well-designed game addition. And part of this is speaking from experience of having a Desperado in my Deathwatch game for awhile, not just general Ascension-hate. Also remember this guy cannot benefit from Squad Modes AT ALL, which will decrease his survivability even more.


Edited by Kshatriya, 19 October 2013 - 10:27 PM.

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#3 pearldrum1

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 01:35 AM

OK, so they will either adapt to deal with hordes early on via psyker or someone will bring a heavy bolter to the party. That is fine. I may still let another player join as tac or devastator depending on difficulty.

 

The human ascension character will be an odd test run. The player running him is co-GMing the game with me. So, if they die, they die. Oh well. They can either join in later as another Astartes or not. It shouldnt be a big deal.

 

Awesome advice, thanks.



#4 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 03:02 AM

As noted, you can cover the lack of a devastator easily.

A backpack ammo supply full of metal storm shells and a heavy bolter is available to and useable by anyone.

Crowd control problems solved...

 

To be honest, five players is probably enough. Plus, a force of mostly specialists requires an intelligent approach to tactics - which in turn will help stop the Ascension player being too overwhelmed.


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#5 Brother Anselm

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 04:24 PM

What's a Black Librarian Psyker?

 

Also we have a group that has no devastator marine, it consist of an Ultramarine Tactical Tyrannic war Veteran, and two Salamanders, one a apothecary the other a tech marine, both are armed with heavy flamers and both have cleanse and purify and one of the flamers is the special Salamander type, so we are kinda covered when it comes to hordes. even our Ultramarine is coming to enjoy the smell of promethium in the morning.


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#6 pearldrum1

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:13 PM

That should have read Black Templar Psyker (Librarian).

 

And that sounds wonderful. In their intel briefings, if they haven`t gotten the picture, NPCs may make suggestions to bring horde-friendly firepower. I am a sweetheart GM like that.



#7 Brother Anselm

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:17 PM

Black Templar Librarian. 

 

I have a little bit of sick in my mouth

 

Cannot... grasp... concept... major heresy... mind... going... into...meltdown.....nnnnooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!


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#8 Kshatriya

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:18 PM

That should have read Black Templar Psyker (Librarian).

So I'm really curious as to why you decided to allow this, and which powers you gave it, and how you changed the Chapter's philosophy to account for it.


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#9 Brother Anselm

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:21 PM

For the love of Sigismund, change it to a Red Scorpion Librarian, they're just as puritanical and worship the Emperor as a god, please please, I'm not sleeping tonight if you don't. sob


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#10 Theofonias

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:22 PM

That should have read Black Templar Psyker (Librarian).

 

And that sounds wonderful. In their intel briefings, if they haven`t gotten the picture, NPCs may make suggestions to bring horde-friendly firepower. I am a sweetheart GM like that.

I+know.+Except+about+the+last+part.+Hone


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#11 Theofonias

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:25 PM

Seriously though, my guys don't have either of those too.  They compensate by having getting fire selectors and multiple types of ammo.


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#12 pearldrum1

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:40 PM

Hahaha, I didn`t mean to give anyone a stroke.

 

He had a really good backstory and his roleplaying is awesome. A lot of self-hate and weariness to use his newfound talents. A lot of Inquisitorial eyes on him, and basically is on a suicide vigil to `right` his `wrong.` It is really fun.

 

We are homebrewing `chapter` powers for him. And now we may start pulling from the Red Scorpions. Do they have chapter powers listed in a supplemental?



#13 pearldrum1

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:41 PM

 

That should have read Black Templar Psyker (Librarian).

So I'm really curious as to why you decided to allow this, and which powers you gave it, and how you changed the Chapter's philosophy to account for it.

 

 

We didn`t have to. He developed his powers after years of service during a battle against psykers on Geonide. It was the only thing that allowed him to save his squad. Rather than kill him on the spot, knowledge of his abilities were harshly repressed and he was immediately sent to the Deathwatch to atone for this. His character is the epitome of a rich roleplaying experience. That is the only reason I allowed it. The interactions and RPing are worth the canon-sodomization.



#14 Kshatriya

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:48 PM

Surprised he's not a Black Shield, tbh.



#15 Brother Anselm

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:48 PM

phew, so is he a blackshield with black templar modes and no longer able to return to his chapter because of his shame and sin?

 

Red Scorpions are in Honour the Chapter pgs 34-36

 

Also what will happen when the Primarchs Curse kicks in, he'll be going against 10000 years of conditioning just trying to stop himself committing suicide.


Edited by Brother Anselm, 20 October 2013 - 06:04 PM.


#16 pearldrum1

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:28 PM

Yeah, that is going to be hillarious. Again, just more self hate and projecting his own inward emotionally problems outward on fellow psykers. I am sure he will be even more reluctant to use his powers, and yadda yadda. No black shield. We wanted other players to see his Black Templar shoulder pauldron, and then witness him use his powers and delight in their respective responses.



#17 Brother Anselm

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 05:59 AM

I would be very careful, A Black Templar Librarian is a fairly powerful combination, Bonuses to both WS and WP can only increase his effectiveness with his force weapon, add in his Chapter modes and he becomes very very dangerous to psykers and demons. Too much so in my opinion

 

I've read the new fluff about Black Templars losing their psyker abilities in the past and maybe regaining them again in the future, its a bit of a cop out as far as i'm concerned. God knows why it was written.

 

But as your player has said, your games not canon, so anything goes, still I would hope any Black Templar he meets in the Deathwatch will go ape-**** and attempt to remove his head, I know mine would.



#18 pearldrum1

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 06:52 AM

That is the hope and the dream, my friend. The hope and the dream.



#19 Kshatriya

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 09:58 AM

 

 

I've read the new fluff about Black Templars losing their psyker abilities in the past and maybe regaining them again in the future, its a bit of a cop out as far as i'm concerned. God knows why it was written.

 

Ughghgh they changed that for some reason? Just ugh. WARD

 

Look it's entirely possible that the BTs HAVE recruited an Aspirant who later manifests psychic powers. It's just that...then they probably kill them because Abhor the Witch. They wouldn't pick an already-psychic boy to undergo implantation...they'd either call for a Black Ship or (more likely) just kill him. They don't have Chapter psychic powers, period, not because they couldn't if they didn't want to or couldn't probably learn the genetic psychic stuff in Dorn's genome, but because it's not part of their Chapter culture. As for existing Marines who exhibit the talent, I like pearl's idea of sending them into exile to regain their honor in glorious death.



#20 pearldrum1

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 05:12 PM

 

 

 

I've read the new fluff about Black Templars losing their psyker abilities in the past and maybe regaining them again in the future, its a bit of a cop out as far as i'm concerned. God knows why it was written.

 

Ughghgh they changed that for some reason? Just ugh. WARD

 

Look it's entirely possible that the BTs HAVE recruited an Aspirant who later manifests psychic powers. It's just that...then they probably kill them because Abhor the Witch. They wouldn't pick an already-psychic boy to undergo implantation...they'd either call for a Black Ship or (more likely) just kill him. They don't have Chapter psychic powers, period, not because they couldn't if they didn't want to or couldn't probably learn the genetic psychic stuff in Dorn's genome, but because it's not part of their Chapter culture. As for existing Marines who exhibit the talent, I like pearl's idea of sending them into exile to regain their honor in glorious death.

 

 

Yeah, I agree. It is really the only way I could make it work in my head. Essentially, Gunter was one of the baddest mother fukkers in the Chapter. He had no clue he was psychically attuned. So, when the heretical sorcerers were putting damage on his squad, and essentially wiping them out, the Emperor spoke to him and the psychic backlash killed the enemy and saved what was left of his team. Of course, the team didn`t know it came from Gunter. So, when he got back he had to confess. I mean, a stoic templar of his calibre would not hide that. The Chapter Master/Chaplain/insert anyone here who would help ease the process for you/ took pity on him and sent him to the Deathwatch for an indeterminate amount of time. He will regain his honor in the face of insurmountable odds. He will return to the Black Templars on his shield or not at all.






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