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#41 ceridan13

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:04 PM

Dj, thanks for feedback! I fully agree with Julia's ruling on MS problem. I have the same understanding on how this is supposed to work. But I think that every case is different and sometimes I would rather stick to the rules and my own interpretation and thematic judgement rather than following advices of even most experienced of players. For example, my question about Find Gate Spell being cast without an approptiate gate - almost everyone ssems to agree on one pov, but I am not convinced and, with all due respect to the experience of these players, I decided to follow my rules and my team agreed with me.

Long story short - I am always ready to follow a good advise, but sometimes I am too stubborn to do it :)

 

Gwen, nice to see a newcomer just like me! The best advise for a novice - read the Rule Book and FAQ after each of your 5 first games. Every time you do it you will find something new :) Also, look through some tutorial videos on youtube. 

Check the files section at BGG here to download short rules or flowcharts to help you out during the game.

You can also read some of the newby mistakes here.

Also, choose easy AO for your first games - like Azathoth



#42 The Professor

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 02:12 PM

Gwen,

 

     Welcome to you ~ I posted the names of all of the Investigators as a response to your inquiry on the Locator Thread.

 

Cheers,

Joe


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#43 dj2.0

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:28 AM

Fair point Ceridan13 :-) ( and that's a lovely number!). Last I checked, nobody is here to strong arm anyone (well there have been a few who needed some severe limb spindling and even severance on some really important things they insisted on continuing on doing and one of them had to be helped to stop breathing, but we don't evoke his name round these parts). But my point wasn't prompted by the surge thing, which is a point I agree with Julia on simply because it is more sensible to my addled old brain, and much more by the hair splitting over the black man, where you seemed to be sensing that was kind of ridiculous yourself, a holdover from your ccg interest, did I misunderstand? If I did understand you, you were wondering if you seemed to be going too far in that direction, and I have to say yes. As a long time card player (my collection does not include MtG, but it covers VtES, Rage, deciphers Star Trek and LotR, ffgs CoC ccg and lcg, Mythos and a few others) I know how haggling over tiny snips of printed text becomes part of the gaming culture and kind of spreads to other games where it becomes an impediment to the player, and I perceive that here.
AH will never receive a card by card clarifications and errata file, and it really doesn't need it, as I'm sure you agree, but it appears you are making complications that do not exist for anyone else.
So, like I said, I am all for you doing your own creative thing, I just think it needs a different approach in AH than you might be used to and that not perceiving this now might frustrate you throughout your time playing and time posting here, because your haggling over what most see as an obvious instruction is probably puzzling to many people here. No offense intended at all and apologies if any is taken, just that I felt the need to point this out for you.
Edit: One more thing comes to mind about the surge and other issues the community might seem to have an unwarranted and mysterious consensus on - I was here when Kevin made posts (AH designer) and he stated his method of surges way back, but like many of those early posts, nobody preserved its wisdom for descendants - they were wiped from existence like 1960s Doctor Who. But some of us remember the original transmissions :-)

Edited by dj2.0, 25 October 2013 - 01:41 AM.

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#44 ceridan13

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 02:24 AM

Dj, no offese taken and thank you for the advise!

 

I had one more question reagrding the game - a couple of days ago we had a game with Mandy and I wonder if I understand her ability correct:

Once per turn one player may reroll failed dice rolled for a single skill check. Even after activating Mandy's ability I still can roll extra dice for clue tokens. Also, I can first try to roll a couple of extra dice using my clue tokens when I fail a check, after that get Mandy's help and if I still fail I can keep adding dice for clue tokens to the results that I had after re-rolling aloowed by Mandy.

Example: having Luck 5 I try topass Luck -2 [2] check. I roll 3 dice getting 2, 2 and 3. I decide to use 1 of my clue tokens an roll an extra die. I roll 1. Crap. I ask Mandy for help, luckily she didn't you her ability this turn yet. Now I get to re-roll all 4 dice. I get 2,4,1 and 5. Damn, I still need 1 more success. So I discard another clue token, roll 1 more die and get 6. At last!! Check passed.

 

I don't see any rules vialation here, do you?



#45 Julia

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 03:01 AM

I believe you can't do this. Explanation:

 

- core rules, pag. 13: you can add clues after making a skill check to add dice on a 1-1 basis

- Mandy's ability: it activates after a skill check is made to re-roll the dice that did not score any success

 

Mandy's ability concerns a re-roll of dice, not rechecking the skill. Hence, Mandy's enabled roll is not a skill check. Hence, you can't add dice after using Mandy


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#46 ceridan13

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 04:59 AM

Hmmm, interresting :)

 

But if you look at it this way: I am making a skill check. When I use Mandy's ability I am not re-rolling the check, I am re-rolling some dice within my initial skill check - I fully agree with you in that. 

But since I am still "within" my initial skill check (I simply altered some dice numbers already rolled) why can't I add a few more dice via clue tokens to my check?

 

At the same time, Mandy's ability says "after any investigator makes skill check". That means the check is over and I can't add more dice... I think you are right... Anyway, Mandy's ability deserves a nerf :)


Edited by ceridan13, 27 October 2013 - 05:34 AM.


#47 Julia

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 05:12 AM

Aye, that's the point, you're not within the original skill check. The skill check starts when you roll the dice, and ends when you say "ok, no more clues to be spent on this one". Then Mandy's ability is triggered (after the check). You could argue "clues are spent after the check either", and then I'll answer "yeah, they can be spent after a check, but not after an investigator's ability is triggered because an ability triggered is not a skill check" :)


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#48 ceridan13

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 06:03 AM

And then I'll go on: "True, ability triggered is not a skill check, but rules do not specify that abilities cannot be used within a skill check or that using ability actually ends skill check. On contrary, the rules provide, that you can add dice by discarding clue tokens after the skill check. So if we consider, that Mandy's ability is a part of skill check, then you actually can keep adding more dice to the roll".

 

But I am a polite person and wouldn't keep arguing, right?



#49 ceridan13

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 06:35 AM

Also, Skids's ability proves that additional dice may be added to the roll after using character's special ability. 


Edited by ceridan13, 27 October 2013 - 06:55 AM.


#50 Julia

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 06:50 AM

"True, ability triggered is not a skill check, but rules do not specify that abilities cannot be used within a skill check

 

And neither they say you may add dice because you fancy to do so, but I don't sense this is a valid argument either.

 

Really, I don't understand if you ask for answers or just to lawyer about rules :laughter: Nevermind, stupid me since I keep on answering :D And clearly, this is the last time I answer one of your questions :D No time for playing these games :D

 

I appreciate your total devotion to the English language and its implication, though, but as Dj said, it's not the proper arena to host a debate competition. Good luck with the rules then :)


Edited by Julia, 27 October 2013 - 06:52 AM.

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#51 ceridan13

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 07:04 AM

Julia, I am sorry to hear that I've displeased you so. By now I should have realised that not everyone shares my affection towards discussing controversial rules issues. I will not trouble you further.



#52 Julia

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 04:53 PM

Ceridan, no displeasing at all, don't worry. Let me go in deeper detail for a while. I tend to see this place as "family", and most of the people here "work for the community": they sacrifice part of their free time to offer help (with rules or with strategy or maybe spending some noons trying to organize the next Arkham Night in Europe). So, as many others here I try to help when I can, in the same way I was helped when I started playing Arkham (my first advanced boardgame!) quite a few years ago. Point is that, eventhough it could seem odd, I tend to have a life sometimes, so writing on this (and some other) forum is time consuming and energy demaning. If there is a real help that is needed, I'll find somehow a way to; but I can't start debating the way it's worded a game whose wording is bad. Just to make an example to be clear: they made a lot of confusion on the distnction between "area", "street area" and "location". And I mean *a lot*. They made additional confusion when they changed the wording from "stay here next turn" to "delayed" to the point they had to clarify this on Dunwich. Nothing against this, some problems always happen, but really trying to go in deeper detail on the points you touched is totally senseless (it is not intended to be rude). It's like you were trying to catch a picture of the Higgs Boson with the microscope you have at your university, or trying to paint like Van Gogh without knowing how to hold a pencil properly.

 

Other games are *perfect* for the rules lawyering you like. Look at Call of Cthulhu LCG: they have every single word they use defined (aka "discard" means...and so on) and they have an FAQ which is updated more or less on a yearly basis (IIRC) that tries to address all the small nuances and interactions. This is not possible with Arkham. Period.

 

Hence, I don't have anything against you or your post; we could hang out, have a beer together, chat about life or the next Halloween and I'm fine with it; I simply can't answer properly your questions because the game per se has holes as big as the Black Cave, and I don't have time / energies / interest to start debating about these points, since it seems that the way we play (I don't think I've ever given you an answer different from those others here or at the geek gave you) is not something that could help you on any of these issues. Hence, debating is sterile. And please note that I'm not saying that I'm somehow displeased if you keep on arguing about rules issues; if this is what you like, I'm fine with that :) But it's not my cup of tea, so I'm out of the game.

 

Hope you could understand my point, and that we could be ok :)


Edited by Julia, 28 October 2013 - 03:51 AM.

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#53 dj2.0

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 03:05 AM

 By now I should have realised that not everyone shares my affection towards discussing controversial rules issues.

There is no controversy, and we see no need for one here.


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#54 Gwen6934

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:04 PM

I have a few questions:

 

 

1. granted it gives you the steps for the 1st player it doesn't however say if the 2nd player follows the same rout such as pulling the mythos card. Also if you go to a location does that automatically mean you pic out a card for that area.

 

2. I noticed on the locations there are 2 markers in a circle with one of the symbols on the investigator cards. the book only mentions the one in black is guaranteed at certain locations like the sanitarium,south church,mary's hospital etc. however it doesn't mention if you need to pull a card for the other or if you pull one at all for the locations that don't have the guaranteed black circle with symbol.

 

I played a mock game with myself to learn the rules, im kinda liking Amanda sharp. the rle book doesn't state if there is a card limit per investigator cards.

 

the rules are rather confusing.



#55 The Professor

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:51 PM

Gwen,

 

     One of the most important things to remember..."Follow the Phases!"

 

     I'm not exactly sure what you're asking under #1., but if you enter one of the "locations" defined as the circular areas on the board, you select a matching card and read the encounter for the specific location. 

 

     As for #2, the icons under each of the locations indicate what you're most likely to encounter, such as an event affecting Stamina or Sanity; gaining/losing a Common Item, Unique Item, or Spell, obtaining Money or Clue token.

 

     You're right about the fact that there's no card limit per Investigator...and yes, the rules are a bit confusing.

 

Cheers,

Joe


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#56 The Professor

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 08:10 PM

Julia,

 

     Congratulations ~ you're at 4,100 posts...I was tracking the number for a few weeks when it was hovering around 4,000!  Amazing...wonderful...always great to see you out here, my friend!

 

Ciao,

Joe


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#57 dj2.0

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 01:57 AM

1. Only 1 Mythos card per turn. The First Player just reads it. Other than this each phase is fully completed for each investigator before next phase begins. So, upkeep for all, then move for all, then encounter phase for all, then encounters in otherworlds for anyone there.
As for locations, you must have an encounter in the Arkham Encounters phase if at a location if there is no gate there. Here is what happens, in order, on each investigators turn during Arkham Encounters -

On a gate marker? Go through it unless you have the explored token.
On a location with text in its box? Use that text and then end your AE phase if you do
No text in the box or did not use it? Then you must draw and resolve a card for that location, drawn from the appropriately coloured deck.. Then end your AE phase.

2. The symbols show which items are likely to appear via the cards for encounters at that location. So, the book and the dollars means cash and spell items are more likely to appear. A white symbol is talking about odds from the cards. A black symbol gives you a definite way to get that item, and its in the locations text box.
So basically, only pull a card if you did not use the text, as per 1 above.

Edited by dj2.0, 05 November 2013 - 02:35 AM.

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#58 Julia

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:19 AM

Julia,

 

     Congratulations ~ you're at 4,100 posts...I was tracking the number for a few weeks when it was hovering around 4,000!  Amazing...wonderful...always great to see you out here, my friend!

 

Ciao,

Joe

 

:laughter: thanks Joe! 5K is the next stretch goal :)


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#59 The Professor

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:09 AM

Ha!  Great reference...good luck, you should be there by the end of the month. :lol:


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#60 Julia

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:11 AM

Ha!  Great reference...good luck, you should be there by the end of the month. :lol:

 

C'mon Joe, you're one post to the 1K goal! (all your readers will receive an autographed picture of their beloved Professor playing Arkham!)

 

Post something!!


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