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#1 jmccarthy

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 06:21 PM

The cycle is light on new rules content, introducing only a single new piece of terminology, the phrase, “cards at your command.” This phrase refers to the total number of cards that a player has in his hand, in play, and in shadows. This terminology allows us to introduce other cards that drive new interactions with the idea of “absolute” or all-encompassing card advantage at a given moment in the game.

 

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Does this include duplicates?



#2 doulos2k

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 06:29 PM

I would think so. A duplicate is still a card. It has no state other than granting the card it's duping with a save response, but it's still a card.

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#3 stormwolf27

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:23 AM

if it includes out of play areas like hand and shadows, I would say dupes count


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#4 Bomb

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:40 AM

In hand = Literally all cards in your hand

 

In play = All in play characters, locations, attachments, duplicates, and your house card(probably even includes your revealed plot card, which would only matter in round 1). 

 

In shadows = Literally all face down cards that are in the shadows

 

I was going to add played Epic Battles as being part of cards in your command, but this new FAQ entry sort of quells it:

 

unless it enters
play as part of the resolution of its effect (e.g.
Risen from the Sea), it enters a Moribund
state after its resolution and is only actually
moved to the discard or dead pile in step 6 of
the action window in which it was played. A
Moribund event is not considered "in play"
and is not "under the command" of the person
who played it.


#5 mdc273

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 12:51 PM

Duplicates both enter and leave play as well. If duplicates were not in play, you would not be able to discard them from play.

 

Ser Axell Florent's ability should be the definitive answer:

 

"Response: After Ser Axell Florent enters play, choose and discard 1 duplicate from play."

 

Emphasis mine.



#6 stormwolf27

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 02:34 PM

 

In hand = Literally all cards in your hand

 

In play = All in play characters, locations, attachments, duplicates, and your house card(probably even includes your revealed plot card, which would only matter in round 1). 

 

In shadows = Literally all face down cards that are in the shadows

 

I was going to add played Epic Battles as being part of cards in your command, but this new FAQ entry sort of quells it:

 

unless it enters
play as part of the resolution of its effect (e.g.
Risen from the Sea), it enters a Moribund
state after its resolution and is only actually
moved to the discard or dead pile in step 6 of
the action window in which it was played. A
Moribund event is not considered "in play"
and is not "under the command" of the person
who played it.

 

I'm not sure in play would include plot cards, as I think they are technically considered out of play, but may, in fact be factored into cards at one's command.

 

I reserve the right to be wrong about this, just my opinion.


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"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka


#7 Bomb

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 03:58 PM

 

 

In hand = Literally all cards in your hand

 

In play = All in play characters, locations, attachments, duplicates, and your house card(probably even includes your revealed plot card, which would only matter in round 1). 

 

In shadows = Literally all face down cards that are in the shadows

 

I was going to add played Epic Battles as being part of cards in your command, but this new FAQ entry sort of quells it:

 

unless it enters
play as part of the resolution of its effect (e.g.
Risen from the Sea), it enters a Moribund
state after its resolution and is only actually
moved to the discard or dead pile in step 6 of
the action window in which it was played. A
Moribund event is not considered "in play"
and is not "under the command" of the person
who played it.

 

I'm not sure in play would include plot cards, as I think they are technically considered out of play, but may, in fact be factored into cards at one's command.

 

I reserve the right to be wrong about this, just my opinion.

 

 

Like I had said before, it only matters in round 1 because there is that tiny amount of time at the start of the game where there are no revealed plots and only plot deck manipulation effects, i.e. Bran Stark, will be able to allow a plot to be revealed before the framework action that has everyone reveal plots.

 

It probably isn't considered to be in play because plot cards have their own states of "used pile", "plot deck", and "revealed".  I feel like there has been a discussion about this at some point before.



#8 jmccarthy

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:02 PM

Thanks guys, seems like they are in play. Great example, MDC. Really helpful.

#9 Khudzlin

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:46 PM

Plots are definitely out of play.

 

(3.43) Attachments on Out of Play Entities
When an attachment is specifically attached to an out of play entity (such as a card in Shadows, a plot card, a player's discard pile, etc.), that attachment is considered to be in play and under the command of its controller.

 


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#10 stormwolf27

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:22 AM

okay. so, out of play, but is your plot deck considered to be "at your command" for the purposes of effects that check for this...


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#11 mdc273

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:21 AM

I wouldn't think so. I guess there's no formal definition for "deck", but if your plot "deck" were in your command, then wouldn't your actual "deck" also be?

 

Also, note the specificity of the rules of what is at your command:

 

"This phrase refers to the total number of cards that a player has in his hand, in play, and in shadows."

 

This is exclusive rather than inclusive (as if I know grammar/English well enough to say that), so I think the wording itself displays that the plot deck is not included in command. Hand, play, and Shadows are very specific and well defined. Neither your plot deck, nor your normal deck, would ever be considered in your hand, in play, or in Shadows that I can think of.


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