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#1 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:17 PM

I've been working on a ship chassis for "Invasion", it has the proper macro-batteries, hangars filled with flyers, bridge and also scanners for specializing at such... However, it's not clear to me how many soldiers it is able to carry.

 

For example: a grand-cruiser can carry approximately 134,000 crew.

 

But what happens when I add a Barracks there, or multiple ones?

Am I stuck with a % of that number or each of the barracks has a capacity for even more people?

And if so, how many?

 

To make a large difference in boarding actions (as each barracks add-on does) it would take large amounts of troops in use, maybe a minimal 5k for each Barracks in the smallest ships?

 

So, how much would a "cruiser" Barracks be able to hold? 10k soldiers each?

How many of those would I need to have a nice invasion-prepared warship?


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#2 CaptainRemiVandigrath

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 03:29 PM

I've noticed that the barracks take up the same amount of space as crew quarters. I've gone with saying that a barracks can hold as many soldiers as crew quarters can hold crew. The barracks would also house the armories, training spaces and mess halls the soldiers would need. So, it makes it easy if you know how many crew you have. A bit less straightforward if you're carrying tanks though.

Edit: missed the total #s question. As a general rule of thumb, I'd suggest bringing along one soldier for every hundred civilians on the planet you're invading. That'll give you enough to fight, hold territory, and provide garrison troops to unruly territories. Supplies would of course be on top of that.

Edited by CaptainRemiVandigrath, 15 October 2013 - 03:33 PM.

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#3 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 03:41 PM

So, you'd say 1 Barracks in a Grand Cruiser (with 134,000 crew) - can hold about 134,000 soldiers?  (100 000 making a lot of space for training areas)

 

I can't say it doesn't make sense, gets me on a totally new scale though.

 

So, with 3 Barracks I'd get 300k soldiers? H* Sh*t I love Rogue Trader.


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#4 Cymbel

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 03:42 PM

I like to keep it mainly based on the size of the ship, once you get Light Cruiser and above it can start fielding armored divisions and that keeps going up. Just remember a specialized troop ship in the cain books can carry about up to 5 regiments IIRC. We can guess that is 5 barracks onboard.



#5 Tenebrae

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 04:05 PM

According to the errata document, a barrack holds "a regiment", no further comment about the size of said regiment.

 

It should also be noted that barracks probably hold far fewer soldiers than the comparable crew quarters, as they provide full-time occupational space for the troops (not just hot-bunk-space like many crew quarters) and "all other facilities needed", such as shooting ranges, training facilities etc.



#6 CaptainRemiVandigrath

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 05:51 PM

I like doing quick calculations (it's how I figure these numbers out for my own games), so here's how I went about it:

 

-The population of New York has a density of about 27,000/sq. mile.  Given 10ft ceilings (Tobias Caine is extravagant like that, less scrupulous RTs could fit a lot more soldiers into each barracks), that means that you could fit about 14,256,000 New Yorkers into a cubic mile (1 mi^3).

 

A lunar class cruiser is Space 75, and you can look up the rest of the space numbers for yourself (this is mostly to try and keep kosher with posting rules here, no idea what the site actually limits...but I'm just trying to be safe), and is listed as 5km x 0.8km abeam (no height, but lets average it out at 1km, since it looks taller than it is wide in the picture).  That means the Cruiser has about 4km^3 space (about 1mi^3 according to Google).  So 1 space on a cruiser = ~0.013mi^3

 

Given just those numbers, the average barracks on a Lunar-class Cruiser could be used to house about 740,000 New Yorkers (the population density already factors in municipality facilities, parks, shops, warehouses, ect).

 

So, by limiting myself to only ~100,000 soldiers, I've left plenty of room for water reclamation, large training halls, parade yards, vehicle repair facilities, armories, transportation, and other items necessary to running an active army-sized military detachment.

 

Personally, I think its great, since the logistics of trying to get a force that large off the ship and onto a planet would already require some thought, but it provides a strong backbone to work with.  Now, it doesn't quite meet the books, where warmasters are sometimes shown invading planets with only a couple regiments, but given the wars fought throughout history, that doesn't bother me all that much.  Plus it makes taking on enemy ships with a full barracks onboard much more scary.

 

It also means that you still need a fleet of twenty or so dedicated barracks ships just to move an invasion fleet around (4 barracks per ship, 10mil. soldiers).


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#7 Wincent

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:24 PM

So, you'd say 1 Barracks in a Grand Cruiser (with 134,000 crew) - can hold about 134,000 soldiers?  (100 000 making a lot of space for training areas)

 

I can't say it doesn't make sense, gets me on a totally new scale though.

 

So, with 3 Barracks I'd get 300k soldiers? H* Sh*t I love Rogue Trader.

 

That. If scaling things like that makes you love this game ( and who doesn't?), then go for it. Rule zero: have fun.



#8 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:08 AM

So, with 3 Barracks I'd get 300k soldiers? H* Sh*t I love Rogue Trader.

No. With a cruiser-weight troop barge you get the ability to carry three hundred thousand soldiers. Acquiring them and getting them through a defensive fleet (since a ship with three barracks and enough drop capacity to land a third of a million men won't be big on fighting in the line of battle) is a completely different problem... :)

 

 

According to the errata document, a barrack holds "a regiment", no further comment about the size of said regiment.

 

Probably because the Imperial Guard background isn't terribly consistant on what a regiment is. But "several thousand" front-liners plus an appropriate divisional wedge seems to be the consensus. Scale down for armoured units and elites, scale down for bolt-fodder like the Krieg and Baran.



#9 Magellan

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 07:48 AM

Actually, you could fairly easily toss three barracks into a large ship. Probably a lot more if you only go with armour, guns and barracks.

 

Personally, since the barracks' space requirement doesn't change depending on ship size and the text for the component says "thousands" rather than tens of thousands or so, I just went with a flat 10.000 soldiers per barracks.


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#10 jabberwoky

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:29 AM

That. If scaling things like that makes you love this game ( and who doesn't?), then go for it. Rule zero: have fun.

Agreed.  The GM is final arbiter of what can fit where on your ship.



#11 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:31 AM

 

That. If scaling things like that makes you love this game ( and who doesn't?), then go for it. Rule zero: have fun.

Agreed.  The GM is final arbiter of what can fit where on your ship.

 

 

MWAHAHAHA I AM THE GM


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#12 jabberwoky

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:05 AM

MWAHAHAHA I AM THE GM

My point exactly.



#13 Radwraith

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 03:10 PM

In Battlefleet Koronus it states that a regiment is usually a Brigade or Division sized formation. This gives unit sizes of up to 20,000 (For a Brigade) or 100,000 (for a division). Vehicles and aircraft are housed either in cargo or launch bays. A ship component will typically be constructed for the largest element it is expected to hold. So my thought would be up to 100000 soldiers plus their personal equipment (Not including vehicles). If you want to apply some common sense to ship sizes then I would say that an escort (BFG term for raider or frigate) barracks could only house a brigade (20000) while a transport or capitol ship (Again; BFG term for cruiser and larger class vessels) Barracks could house a full division! (100000) Either way it's a LOT of crunchies! :D



#14 venkelos

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 03:51 PM

It's a nice image; something Imperial akin to a Hellbringer PAS (BFK, p.104), carrying a few Barracks, some ships in bay or drop pod bays, and that nice bombardment cannon + Invasion Bridge. Another ship to watch it in space, maybe a torpedo destroyer, or two, and you have a fearsome compliment. Wish it worked so well in Only War, but that that battle sort of needs to go on for the game to do so.

 

As an aside, since I mentioned the drop pod bays, do Imperial ships EVER carry the Space Marines? I know that Space Marines are mostly only for the worst stuff, but I could see them dropping to the surface, taking out the biggest nasties, and then allowing the Guardsmen to more slowly deploy their bigger, slower, more numerous assets into place, to mop up and hold the area. Since Chaos MIGHT be more cohesive, I suppose they might use that tactic more (CSMs and Traitor GMs co-deploying), but I presume the Space Marines only like to use their own craft, or occasionally  an allied RT. A shame, really, as they get the best use out drop pods.



#15 CaptainRemiVandigrath

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:27 PM

It's a nice image; something Imperial akin to a Hellbringer PAS (BFK, p.104), carrying a few Barracks, some ships in bay or drop pod bays, and that nice bombardment cannon + Invasion Bridge. Another ship to watch it in space, maybe a torpedo destroyer, or two, and you have a fearsome compliment. Wish it worked so well in Only War, but that that battle sort of needs to go on for the game to do so.

 

As an aside, since I mentioned the drop pod bays, do Imperial ships EVER carry the Space Marines? I know that Space Marines are mostly only for the worst stuff, but I could see them dropping to the surface, taking out the biggest nasties, and then allowing the Guardsmen to more slowly deploy their bigger, slower, more numerous assets into place, to mop up and hold the area. Since Chaos MIGHT be more cohesive, I suppose they might use that tactic more (CSMs and Traitor GMs co-deploying), but I presume the Space Marines only like to use their own craft, or occasionally  an allied RT. A shame, really, as they get the best use out drop pods.

 

Imperial Crusade Assault Bay

 

Designed during an age where the Imperial Navy and the Adeptus Astartes worked closely together, the Crusade-era Assault Bay is a work of art that is rarely echoed in any modern ship.  Typically built into the dorsal compartments of a cruiser-sized ship, the Assault Bay contains the facilities to house five companies of Space Marines, their extended retainer support staff, and the vehicles they need to operate on the surface.  Embedded in the thick armor of the ship is the launch bays for the Thunderhawks and drop pods necessary to sortie with five hundred Astartes soldiers.

 

Rare now in the fleet after the reforms of Gulliman and the Imperial Guard, it is even rarer to find a Space Marine chapter willing to crew such a component.  To do so would require accepting a Captain other than one of their own and breaking the very treaties each Chapter was formed under; or worse, agreeing to travel out into the Halo Stars under the flag and ship of a Rogue Trader...

 

Space 4, Power 3, Near Unique (SP 4)

 

 

---Something like that? (complete fabrication from me, but definitely an awesome idea Venkelos)

 

Edit:

 

4fA48thl.jpg?1

 

Something I thought was interesting on this (cruiser shown at 5km long) is that the BFK book and the Battlefleet Gothic book disagree about the overall size of an Imperial Cruiser.  Gothic says that the cruiser is 3.5km instead.

 

I guess that's why the GM's word is always the final say.


Edited by CaptainRemiVandigrath, 16 October 2013 - 09:30 PM.

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#16 susanbrindle

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:39 AM

In Battlefleet Koronus it states that a regiment is usually a Brigade or Division sized formation. This gives unit sizes of up to 20,000 (For a Brigade) or 100,000 (for a division). Vehicles and aircraft are housed either in cargo or launch bays. A ship component will typically be constructed for the largest element it is expected to hold. So my thought would be up to 100000 soldiers plus their personal equipment (Not including vehicles). If you want to apply some common sense to ship sizes then I would say that an escort (BFG term for raider or frigate) barracks could only house a brigade (20000) while a transport or capitol ship (Again; BFG term for cruiser and larger class vessels) Barracks could house a full division! (100000) Either way it's a LOT of crunchies! :D

Well, sort of. The trouble with 40k is that in terms of numbers, planets are always going to have more. 100,000k is only a tenth of a million, which means if you had landed on Modern-day Earth with one Barracks full of troops, you'd find yourself severely outnumbered... by Ukraine. (150k) And that's just their active personnel- the boots on the ground today. If they call up all their reserves, they can add an additional million men. 100k is only really meaningful if you're invading an iceball where the enemy has to import too. 

 

It's a nice image; something Imperial akin to a Hellbringer PAS (BFK, p.104), carrying a few Barracks, some ships in bay or drop pod bays, and that nice bombardment cannon + Invasion Bridge. Another ship to watch it in space, maybe a torpedo destroyer, or two, and you have a fearsome compliment. Wish it worked so well in Only War, but that that battle sort of needs to go on for the game to do so.

 

As an aside, since I mentioned the drop pod bays, do Imperial ships EVER carry the Space Marines? I know that Space Marines are mostly only for the worst stuff, but I could see them dropping to the surface, taking out the biggest nasties, and then allowing the Guardsmen to more slowly deploy their bigger, slower, more numerous assets into place, to mop up and hold the area. Since Chaos MIGHT be more cohesive, I suppose they might use that tactic more (CSMs and Traitor GMs co-deploying), but I presume the Space Marines only like to use their own craft, or occasionally  an allied RT. A shame, really, as they get the best use out drop pods.

 

Imperial Crusade Assault Bay

 

Designed during an age where the Imperial Navy and the Adeptus Astartes worked closely together, the Crusade-era Assault Bay is a work of art that is rarely echoed in any modern ship.  Typically built into the dorsal compartments of a cruiser-sized ship, the Assault Bay contains the facilities to house five companies of Space Marines, their extended retainer support staff, and the vehicles they need to operate on the surface.  Embedded in the thick armor of the ship is the launch bays for the Thunderhawks and drop pods necessary to sortie with five hundred Astartes soldiers.

 

Rare now in the fleet after the reforms of Gulliman and the Imperial Guard, it is even rarer to find a Space Marine chapter willing to crew such a component.  To do so would require accepting a Captain other than one of their own and breaking the very treaties each Chapter was formed under; or worse, agreeing to travel out into the Halo Stars under the flag and ship of a Rogue Trader...

 

Space 4, Power 3, Near Unique (SP 4)

 

 

---Something like that? (complete fabrication from me, but definitely an awesome idea Venkelos)

 

Edit:

 

4fA48thl.jpg?1

 

Something I thought was interesting on this (cruiser shown at 5km long) is that the BFK book and the Battlefleet Gothic book disagree about the overall size of an Imperial Cruiser.  Gothic says that the cruiser is 3.5km instead.

 

I guess that's why the GM's word is always the final say.

 

Oh wow! That's a really cool image. Really highlights the scale of 40k ships. 

RE: "Or worse, a rogue trader ship"

The fluff suggests that Marines and Rogue Traders work together rather commonly. 



#17 SirFrog

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:12 AM

The fluff suggests that Marines and Rogue Traders work together rather commonly. 

 

I thought that was first edition fluff, i.e. the original Rogue Trader. I haven't seen that since.



#18 susanbrindle

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:22 AM

I'm pretty sure that the core rulebook for RT has it somewhere, and Battlefleet Koronus treats it as a distinct possibility. Isn't there an entire chapter that works exclusively with a Rogue Trader? The Marines Errant, or something? 



#19 venkelos

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:31 AM

POSSIBILITY, not likely. You might more likely find a large crate of inferno pistols, and no one else Captain Morgan-ing on top of it, making you have to work for it. Pretty sure even the Marines Errant don't often travel on the ships of others; they have one of the most numerous fleets of ships in the Astartes. A Rogue Trader having Space Marines on his ship (outside of 1st ed RT) is likely never to happen, unless the Dynasty, or the RT themselves, has some sort of honor pact/history with a specific Chapter. Even then, the only really likely time it'll come up will be if the SMs happen to call in a favor, and request transport to a place where their own ships, or lack of such, can't get them to. Sadly, a Rogue Trader is likely never going to be cool enough to get to keep some on permanent retainer; Space Marines are too important, and not numerous enough. This is only my limited understanding of 40k fluff, of course.



#20 CaptainRemiVandigrath

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:25 PM

I could see a rogue trader transporting a single space marine or two on an honor mission if they have ties to the chapter, but yeah, a large scale deployment from a rogue trader vessel feels unlikely. An Astartes barracks then would be awesome, but impractical.

Imagine having that as your pre-campaign acquisition roll though! "Yes, I'm rolling to fill my barracks with half a chapter of Space Marines, who have been bonded to my Dynasty for centuries after a conflict we helped them with..."
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