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Minion question from the Official FAQ and Errata


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#1 Fart Head

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 04:33 PM

In the Official FAQ and Errata, it states about minions, "No members of the group are defeated, as the total wounds suffered has not yet exceeded an individual trooper’s wound threshold."

 

However there is text in the, "Under a Black Sun", PDF that states, "When the minion group sustains damage equal to an individual minion’s wound threshold, one minion is defeated and the group’s size decreases by one."

 

Which one is correct?

 

 


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#2 awayputurwpn

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 04:57 PM

The Errata is correct. That piece of errata was written to correct the reconcile the way some GMs had been running it (including the author of Under a Black Sun--and especially during convention games, even those run by developers on occasion).

 

Granted, it's easier to just remove a minion after 5 damage has been dealt. But that's not really in line with how Wound Thresholds work (and "easy" is the name of the game for convention play). YMMV, but the errata is the way the actual rules are written.


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#3 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 05:08 PM

In the Official FAQ and Errata, it states about minions, "No members of the group are defeated, as the total wounds suffered has not yet exceeded an individual trooper’s wound threshold."

 

However there is text in the, "Under a Black Sun", PDF that states, "When the minion group sustains damage equal to an individual minion’s wound threshold, one minion is defeated and the group’s size decreases by one."

 

Which one is correct?

Technically the Errata/FAQ is, since it's the most recent information.

 

However, if for your games you prefer the method presented in Under a Black Sun, by all means use that method.  As I noted in the Errata thread, I saw quite a few GMs doing exactly this, including at least one that helped write the core rulebook in the first place ;)


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#4 archon007

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:08 PM

In the Official FAQ and Errata, it states about minions, "No members of the group are defeated, as the total wounds suffered has not yet exceeded an individual trooper’s wound threshold."

However there is text in the, "Under a Black Sun", PDF that states, "When the minion group sustains damage equal to an individual minion’s wound threshold, one minion is defeated and the group’s size decreases by one."

Which one is correct?

To me they say the same thing. Unless you quoted the Errata incorrectly.

Yeah I just reread it, you are only looking at a part of the answer and taking it out of context to the question asked. The bottom line if a minion group suffers more damage than a single minions threshold after soak a minion is defeated and removed.

Example: minion group of 4, soak 3, WT 5: at 6 damage no minion is defeated 6 - 3 (soak) = 3 to WT of 5 = 2 left over no one defeated.

At 11 damage: 11 - 3 (soak) = 8 to WT of 5 = -3 rolled to 2nd minion, and 1 minion is removed.

At 16 damage: 16 - 3 (soak) = 13 to WT of 5 = - 8 to 2nd minion of WT 5 = -3 to 3rd minion, and 2 minions are defeated and removed.

Edited by archon007, 14 October 2013 - 07:19 PM.


#5 Shadai

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:12 PM

 

In the Official FAQ and Errata, it states about minions, "No members of the group are defeated, as the total wounds suffered has not yet exceeded an individual trooper’s wound threshold."
 
However there is text in the, "Under a Black Sun", PDF that states, "When the minion group sustains damage equal to an individual minion’s wound threshold, one minion is defeated and the group’s size decreases by one."
 
Which one is correct?

To me they say the same thing. Unless you quoted the Errata incorrectly.

 

 

Not necessarily.

 

The first one means 3 stormtroopers with a 5 wound threshold have a total of 15 points.  You don't remove a trooper until 6 wounds are done (exceeding an individual threshold of 5).  So 10 points of damage would only remove 1 trooper.

 

The second one means that in the same minion group, a trooper would be removed with every 5 points of damage (the individual wound threshold).  So that same 10 points of damage would remove 2 troopers.



#6 archon007

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:24 PM

In the Official FAQ and Errata, it states about minions, "No members of the group are defeated, as the total wounds suffered has not yet exceeded an individual trooper’s wound threshold."

However there is text in the, "Under a Black Sun", PDF that states, "When the minion group sustains damage equal to an individual minion’s wound threshold, one minion is defeated and the group’s size decreases by one."

Which one is correct?

To me they say the same thing. Unless you quoted the Errata incorrectly.

Not necessarily.

The first one means 3 stormtroopers with a 5 wound threshold have a total of 15 points. You don't remove a trooper until 6 wounds are done (exceeding an individual threshold of 5). So 10 points of damage would only remove 1 trooper.

The second one means that in the same minion group, a trooper would be removed with every 5 points of damage (the individual wound threshold). So that same 10 points of damage would remove 2 troopers.
Yes you are correct other thresholds are also exceeding to take effect. I took the OP meaning the entire minion groups WT had to be exceeded before they are defeated, meaning an all or nothing.

Edited by archon007, 14 October 2013 - 07:25 PM.


#7 Rikoshi

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:11 AM

In thinking about this way too hard, I've realized that, given the errata clarifications, there's a sort of thing with "rollover wounds" when tracking damage to minion groups.

 

For instance, in the example group of 3 minions with WT 5 each, the first one doesn't drop until you've deal six wounds. But this also means that the second minion in the group has taken that extra wound, since now you're looking at a running tally of 9/15 left for "wounds to deal before group is defeated."

 

Obviously, in practice, it's kind of a non-issue, since this is just about the back-end paperwork and shouldn't effect narrative gameplay; it's just a weird mathematically oddity that jumped out at me.



#8 Morridini

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:27 AM

Ok now I am confused, the FAQ and the people in this thread say that to kill of one minion with WT 5, you need to deliver 6 damage. Then with a group of 3 minion with WT 5, you need 6 to kill the first one, 12 to kill the second one and 18 to kill the third one. 18 being higher than the groups total WT of 15...



#9 HappyDaze

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:37 AM

Ok now I am confused, the FAQ and the people in this thread say that to kill of one minion with WT 5, you need to deliver 6 damage. Then with a group of 3 minion with WT 5, you need 6 to kill the first one, 12 to kill the second one and 18 to kill the third one. 18 being higher than the groups total WT of 15...


No. >5 drops 1st. >10 drops 2nd. >15 drops 3rd. Note that it's greater than multiples of WT, not simply multiples of WT.

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#10 Morridini

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 03:02 AM

Right, now I get it. Thanks.

#11 That Blasted Samophlange

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 04:49 AM

If there are 3 minions with a wound threshold of 15 I've been removing when they take 5 damage, after all when your eound threshold drops to zero don't you suffer a crit? I could be doing it wrong.
You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point if EU.

#12 HappyDaze

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 05:56 AM

If there are 3 minions with a wound threshold of 15 I've been removing when they take 5 damage, after all when your eound threshold drops to zero don't you suffer a crit? I could be doing it wrong.


Wound Threshold doesn't drop at all. Its an upper limit to how many Wounds you can take before being taken out. Your Wounds start at 0 when you're unharmed. As you take damage, it builds up until you exceed your Wpund Threshold and then the critical comes as you're taken out.

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#13 mouthymerc

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 06:04 AM

It is when WT is exceeded. So the first minion would not be removed until the group takes 6 wounds (after soak). Two minions are removed if they take 11 wounds (after soak), and so on.


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#14 Fart Head

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 09:25 AM

Ok. Three stormtrooper minions walk into a bar.

 

They should have watched where they were going and they suffer permanent brain damage, and completely lose their basic cognitive abilities. They will never be able to speak to one another again. 


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#15 FangGrip

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 09:42 AM

Ok. Three stormtrooper minions walk into a bar.

 

They should have watched where they were going and they suffer permanent brain damage, and completely lose their basic cognitive abilities. They will never be able to speak to one another again. 

 

You need a rimshot for this joke.  

 

Keep up the good work.   :D


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#16 mrvander

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:01 AM

Ok. Three stormtrooper minions walk into a bar.

 

They should have watched where they were going and they suffer permanent brain damage, and completely lose their basic cognitive abilities. They will never be able to speak to one another again. 

 

This is a known issue with Stormtrooper minions.

 


Edited by mrvander, 15 October 2013 - 11:01 AM.

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#17 awayputurwpn

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:02 AM

If there are 3 minions with a wound threshold of 15 I've been removing when they take 5 damage, after all when your eound threshold drops to zero don't you suffer a crit? I could be doing it wrong.

There's a few bad habits going on here. 1st, there's the concept of Wound Threshold "dropping to zero." It will go better for you and your games if you count wounds UP to the wound threshold (as in, you start with zero wounds).

2nd, if a PC's or Nemesis' WT is exceeded (that is, their wounds are brought to a number above their Threshold), then RAW they receive a critical hit. The same is not true for minions and rivals. They just "die" when their Wound Threshold is exceeded.

3rd, RAW you remove a minion from the minion group every time the group takes additive damage in excess of a single minion's threshold. So like HappyDaze said, and since most minions will have a WT of 5; >5 total damage drops one minion, >10 drops the second, and so on. 

 

YMMV, but I'd at least take care of that Wound Threshold counting down problem. It'll give you and your players a headache when reading many of the rules.


Edited by awayputurwpn, 15 October 2013 - 11:07 AM.


#18 Tenrousei

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:56 PM

I've never really seen the difference in adding or subtracting to keep track of wounds.  Personally do whatever works for you mathmetically.

 

As far as the OP's quest (which has been answered) I believe many (myself included) were assuming that when a group of minions had received wounds equal to or above one minions WT we were removing one.  The Errata clarifies this to point out that only when one of the minions WT is exceeded are they removed.

 

Which I would think logically would omit the "last" minion?  Meaning that in the example provided if I was facing one 1 minion with a WT of 5 would they need to suffer 5 or 6 damage to be removed?  I'm AFB, but is there anything that happens when you meet your WT?


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#19 That Blasted Samophlange

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 02:34 PM

Phew.. was originally very angry when I red the responses to my post. Took a breather and walked away from my phone. It was probably because I'm tired with baby not sleeping here. I read the responses as very condescending in nature, which they weren't. It could also be that acronyns annoy me greatly, as I feel they atribute to the dumbing down of north american society. Internet and text lingo are an anethema to me.

The wound threshold I DO understand, but when you have 2 and a half decades of games with hit points or wounds that go down from a total, I tend to defer to that method in communication.

The suffering a critical was from my Erroneous understanding that when your wound threshold is 'filled up', for example taking 15 points of damage with a wound threshold of 15, you suffer a critical - with minions a critical eliminates them, so my interpretation was while not spelled out, when taking damage up to the minions wound threshold the killing blow was from a critical for maxing out their threshold. A silent critical as it were.

Seems a certain point of view can cause a miscommunication. Also, never respond angry. No good can come from it.
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#20 FangGrip

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 03:15 PM

Seems a certain point of view can cause a miscommunication. Also, never respond angry. No good can come from it.

 

Unless you happen to be a Sith.  ;)


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