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Saboteur


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#1 polmoneys

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:19 AM

New HWK arrived and I'm trying a list to play with Saboteur as I'm guessing it can be super annoying to my opponent...

 

 
99
 
Rebel Operative  + Ion Cannon Turret + Saboteur
 
Rookie 
 
Wedge + PTL + R2 Astro 
 
Green Squadron  + PTL

 

 

 

Am I looking at Saboteur wrong? I own a Falcon so maybe I should try it on there? 

 

Do HWK needs more a Ion Cannon or  Engine Upgrade? The dial is terrible... 

 

Should I use Roark instead? 

 

100

 

Roark Garnet + Ion Cannon Turret  + Saboteur   

 

2x Rookie  

 

Wedge Antilles +PTL

 

 

 

 

I usually play against a swarm with Sontirr and Howlrunner...

 

 

TIA


Edited by polmoneys, 12 October 2013 - 04:22 AM.


#2 Effenhoog

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:39 AM

the HWK needs a turret if you want to get any offense out of it

 

no amount of boosting is going to fix that 1 attack die



#3 Vonpenguin

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 10:22 AM

I think operative/ion/saboteur is a decent way to build a HWK. Roark might be good if there are a lot of low pilot skills or high skill enemies. Saboteur needs an action which makes blaster turrets and kyle bad choices and Jan so-so because of her frequent stress.

 

Saboteur is a great way to get in a sneaky extra pseudo attack. if you don't NEED to take a certain action each turn it makes for a nice nuisance.



#4 DraconPyrothayan

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 10:49 AM

Saboteur wants high-damage teammates. I'm considering adding it to a HSF build.

#5 polmoneys

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:27 AM

I don't expect to use saboteur more than twice per game but if it can hit Sontirr hard it's worth it. Wedge is there to provide some hits... I'll try the following list on tuesday and let you know how it goes :)  

 

Green Squadron Pilot +PTL

 

Rookie Pilot 

 

Wedge Antilles + Determination + R5 astromech

 

Roark Garnet + Ion Cannon Turret  + Saboteur

 

To use it efficently I need to come into range 1 without stress most likely with the 2 white 90º turn, not as easy as it sounds. For a player that have never used Ion (no Y-Wings) it's super nice that the HWK can carry them as it adds options to gameplay. The same reason (versatility) is why I might go with a Green + Rookie and not two Rookies even at the cost of 1 attack die...

 

Btw, If I had to fly saboteur with the falcon I might go with something like: 

 

 

Rebel Operative + Ion Cannon Turret  +Saboteur 

 

Han Solo + PTL + Nien Nunb+ Gunner +MIllenium Falcon

 

Rookie 

 

or even trade Han for Chewbacca + engine upgrade



#6 Kaiote

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:50 AM

I know the topic is really about the saboteur, but if I run Roark I usually try to give his ability a target with Swarm Tactics.  You could have Wedge and the Rookie firing @ 12PS, if you replace Determination and the R5 with Swarm Tactics...  Just a thought.



#7 polmoneys

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 11:33 AM

Sweet Kaiote!  your option is much much better :)


Edited by polmoneys, 13 October 2013 - 11:35 AM.


#8 Kaiote

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 03:21 PM

26 points
Roark Garnet
Ion Cannon Turret, Saboteur
28 points
Green Squadron Pilot #1
Concussion Missiles, Swarm Tactics, Stealth Device
25 points
Green Squadron Pilot #2
Concussion Missiles, Swarm Tactics
21 points
Prototype Pilot
Concussion Missiles

 

My wife loves her Awings so I put this list together for her, inspired by your Roark +Saboteur.  3 Awings firing a concussion salvo at PS12.



#9 polmoneys

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 04:17 PM

fyi on todays match rolled three times saboteur die with no success against Turr + VI, Soontir +PTL and Trelix yet Roark is a very good team player and with Ion Turret HWK can actually be quite a thing by himself. Swarm Tactics on Wedge is definetly a must as it can give back to HWK the initiative in order to use saboteur early in combat phase. Super fun to fly, I'll stick with it and if it can beat the Soontirr+Howlrunner swarm list my friend is using most of the times I may have found 'my list' :) 



#10 Buhallin

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 05:05 PM

Swarm Tactics on Wedge is definetly a must as it can give back to HWK the initiative in order to use saboteur early in combat phase.

Saboteur is an action - you use it during the ship's normal activation in the Activation Phase, so Swarm Tactics doesn't do anything for it (nor does it need to).

 

Saboteur overall is a strange beast.  You've got a 50/50 chance of it accomplishing anything when you get to use it, and even if you get the flip nothing guarantees that it will be a useful crit.  If it were an automatic, it would be pretty good, but taking an action means that your overall combat effectiveness is going to be dramatically less because you're not getting Focus to boost your attacks.

 

The other big problem is the opportunity cost.  As the second crewman on a Falcon or Lambda it's not a horrible idea, but the opportunity cost for taking up the sole crew slot on a HWK or Firespray...  Meh.  You'll get far better use out of a Recon Specialist.



#11 polmoneys

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 05:31 PM

Hmm Buhalim, I played as follows, was It wrong?

 

at the beginning of combat phase Roark increases wedge to 12 and then Wedge with ST gives back the 12 initiative to Roark so that he can use Saboteur prior to any ship shooting.


Edited by polmoneys, 15 October 2013 - 05:32 PM.


#12 Rodent Mastermind

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 05:35 PM

Yep polmoney

FWjDcBn.png

It's an Action not an Attack. You can use it, instead of one of the Actions in your bar, immediately after you move the HWK. It's not used in the combat phase.

#13 polmoneys

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 05:43 PM

I see. Thanks !

Edited by polmoneys, 15 October 2013 - 05:45 PM.


#14 Sergovan

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 07:01 PM

I have this squad with saboteur that I have been wanting to try for some time:

 

100 pts:

 

Blue B-Wing with FCS

Blue B-Wing with FCS

Roark with Blaster turret and Saboteur

Garven with R2

 

B wings move first and take up front as hit takes and blockers

Roark moves after and does Saboteur on ship already hit

Garven moves and takes focus

 

Attack, Roark gives a B-wing the first shot, then Garven goes and passes his focus off to Roark, if he needs one, or to the B-wing still yet to fire. Roark turrets with his shot, then the last B-wing takes his shot.

 

The saboteur is in there to pop a useful crit when it can.

 

Nothing stands out as the alpha to take out and if you lose one or two ships the list should still fly well.


Rebels: 5 X-Wing, 4 Y-Wing, 4 A-Wing, 2 Yt-1300, 3 B-wing, 3 HWK-290, 3 Z-95, 1 E-wing, 1 CR 75

Empire: 6 Tie Fighters, 6 Tie Interceptors (1- 181st, 1- RG), 2 Tie Advanced, 2 Firesprays, 4 Tie Bombers,

2 Lambda, 1 Tie Phantom, 1 Defender

Tournament results: 11 of 11; 3 of 11;(AoIA)2 of 3; 12 of 28


#15 Buhallin

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 01:23 AM

RM basically covered it, but you were half right :)  The Roark/Swarm trick works perfectly well, just doesn't help the Saboteur since it doesn't go during combat.


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#16 DraconPyrothayan

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 03:06 PM

A thought occurs:

Saboteur cares about a new resource, one that is rarely examined in the game thus far: The odds of the damage deck.

There are 33 cards in the damage deck. 7 Direct Hit, and 2 each of Minor Explosion, Minor Hull Breach, Damaged Engine, Damaged Sensor Array, Damaged Cockpit, Injured Pilot, Stunned Pilot, Blinded Pilot, Console Fire, Thrust Control Fire, Weapon Malfunction, Munitions Failure, and Structural Damage.

Now, Saboteur loves finding a Direct Hit, but he also loves the ones that flip themselves facedown after doing something temporarily devastating.

Specifically, it turns Minor Explosion (Roll 1 attack die. On a Hit, suffer 1 damage) into a free attack, Blinded Pilot (The next time you attack, do not roll dice) into a free stun, Munitions Failure (Choose 1 secondary weapon, and discard it) into a complete disarmament, and Thrust Control Fire (Receive 1 stress token) into a stressing engine.

 

It also re-activates the ones that force your opponent to take an action to get rid of, like Console Fire (a new damage each combat phase!), Weapon Malfunction (-1 Attack Die of primary weapon), Damaged Sensor Array (No actions other than this), and Structural Damage (-1 Agility Die)

 

Multiply the number of cards by 3 for your percentage count, and that's 21% chance of unearthing a Direct Hit, a 24% chance of unearthing one of the 4 that flip themselves facedown, and a 24% chance of unearthing one that requires an Action to flip facedown.

 

Perhaps most epically, it has the ability to leave a Crit on Chewbacca, or on a pilot with Determination, who would normally convert them into regular damage.

 

And so, I have elected to build a crit-fleet.

 

Maarek Stele

-Marksmanship

[30]

 

Colonel Jendon

-Saboteur

-Weapons Engineer

-ST-321

[34]

 

Howlrunner

-Stealth Device

[21]

 

Winged Gundark

[15]

 

30+34+21+15=100, with a lot of crits.

 

I chose Stele for his ability to call which crit he deals. A Direct Hit is always useful, but he can also set up Sabotage like no-one else. I gave him Marksmanship to improve his critting efficiency.

I use Jendon specifically to give Stele the ability to Target Lock and Marksmanship every turn. I give him Weapons Engineer for the ability to use another ability in between gifting them, or the ability to attack with his own target lock. I gave him ST-321 to have that target lock fall down on any ship.

Howlrunner is there as a supplement to the Target Lock King: useable by the other 3 ships regardless of their action, and keeping the re-rolls coming if they take down Jendon. She has stealth device for survivability.

Winged Gundark is there as a miniature Stele. He crits astonishingly often, particularly with Howlrunner and Jendon giving him re-roll ability.

 

 

 

Another tactic would be to use Proton Bombs to apply damage underneath the shields; with that 48.48% chance of landing a saboteur-hijinx card on each crit dealt, it would allow you the most use out of Saboteur yet.


Edited by DraconPyrothayan, 16 October 2013 - 03:09 PM.





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