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Thoughts on Showing All Act 1 Shop Items After Interlude?


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#1 Wuyley

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 09:18 PM

In the rulebook it says that after the Act 1 interlude that you should show all of the act 1 item cards for the heroes to look at and buy. How important is this rule? I ask because one of the things our playgroup likes is not knowing what is in the deck and getting surprised when it shows up in the shopping step.

 

Plus now that we have all 3 expansions, that means there is a lot of act 1 gear to spread out and we haven't seen the majority of it gear as it is. Would it be really harmful to the heroes to instead maybe do 2X items per hero instead of just showing all the gear or leaving it the same and doing X+1 like in any other normal shopping step or does it severely unbalance the game?

 

Thanks



#2 Silverhelm

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 09:26 PM

If your heroes don't want to then don't (its for them anyway). Only reason you do it in the first place is because everything from then on is going to change into act 2 monsters, shop items ect. Why would they want to? Because it will be there last chance to get any gear from act 1 shop. And if they really wanted that stamina ring they can get it. So if there is a build there looking for it can be important unless they are storing up the cash for act 2 stuff.

Hope this helps...

#3 Wuyley

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 09:58 PM

But by not looking at the entire deck and using up their gear, do you think it severely puts them at a disadvantage? We are all about theme and being surprised but if it harms game play really bad, its not worth it to us.



#4 Silverhelm

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 10:04 PM

If surprise is your thing I say do it. And no it shouldn't hurt anything. My group wouldn't do that unless they had what they need. That play style makes perfect since to me go for it. In act 2 there are better things for the heroes to buy anyway.

Edited by Silverhelm, 11 October 2013 - 10:06 PM.


#5 Varikas

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 02:48 AM

I think that if you dont show all the items it would disbalance the game for Act II unless the heroes had bought all that they want (but as they dont know what items they could buy...that is very diffiicult)

This rule is made so that the heroes could go well equiped to Act II. Also, its a very usual strategy from the heroes to keep as gold as they can to this shop phase, cause they can see all and buy only the best items for Act I.



#6 rfisha

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:55 AM

I don't think it matters a lot anyway as the ACT II weaponry is far better.  It's a gamble anyway, buy the best of ACT I, or wait and hopefully get something better randomly in ACT II.



#7 Steve-O

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:39 AM

I agree with those who say it doesn't really matter.  If you want to keep the Act I deck a surprise, do it.

 

Not having the opportunity to buy any Act I item they want may hurt the hero party a little bit, but the truth is the difficulty ramps up a lot when you jump to Act II, whether or not the heroes have bought the ideal Act I items they want.  It might make a little difference, but it won't make a huge difference.


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#8 Silverhelm

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 12:32 PM

Only problem with buying to much act 1 stuff is the value of gold drops when they sell it making act 2 items tough to acquire. But yeah like a poster said above no matter what they choose it can be a gamble.

#9 Varikas

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:10 PM

I am not agree...Its ture that, sometimes it can be done, cause the difference woulnt be very big but...in other times the difference can be very very big...

For example, if during the Act I adventures and Interlude you dont get the Rune Plate armor...its a very very big mistake (or bad luck...) cause its one of the best armors of the game. With that rule, you KNOW that, in Act II, you are going to have it, SURE 100%, but if you let all to the lucky, with more and more expansions and more and more cards, in the future would be very very difficult to get it, or other very good Act I items like bearded axe, mana weave, crossbow and so on...

Thats why the rule exist, to give the chance to the heroes to buy all Act I items that they want and dont let all to the lucky...Thats why if your heroes didnt buy some (or all) of that very good items cause they didnt see them, it would be quite unfair to take out that rule and dont let the heroes the change of geting that excelent items.

And also, as I said in my first post, maybe the heroes could have lucky and see the crossbow for example, but they didnt have enought money in that moment, but they like that weapon and want to buy it...it would be quite imposible that they could draw it again, too much lucky, but with that rule its sure that they are going to have that chance again...


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#10 Vejita00

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:46 AM

I don't care much for the rule either. I simply go by a rule in that I spread out double the normal cards before the end of the act. Therefore in a 4 hero game, I give them 10 shop cards to choose from. This way it keeps more surprise.


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#11 Varikas

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 09:08 AM

I don't care much for the rule either. I simply go by a rule in that I spread out double the normal cards before the end of the act. Therefore in a 4 hero game, I give them 10 shop cards to choose from. This way it keeps more surprise.

 

Sure, it keeps more surprise but...what happens if the item that your heroes want isnt in that 10? You said "oh...bad luck, now come to Act II and say goodbye to all Act I items..."

In this moment with the basic game + first 2 expansions, we have 33 Act I items...and with trolfens I dont know, maybe around 37

In a 4 heroes game, they should draw 20 Act I items before the Interlude, and of course they can draw multiple times the same item so...how many different items should they see before the interlude? I would say that maybe a 50%.

Its true that maybe, if the OL wants, they can play a rumor adventure and have the change of see 5 items more...but thats not sure.

Now, if you let them to see 10 items more after the Interlue, they would see a total of 30 items more or less...so there would be 7 items that they didnt see never for sure, and if the draw the same item more than 1 time...maybe they would lose around 10 items from Act I...

What happens if Rune Plate is one of that items? or crossbow? or the bearded axe? or maybe the mana weave, the chain mail, the ring of power...that items are BASIC for a good Act II and if you dont get them cause you dont have enought money, or you used it wrong ok...but if you dont have the chance cause you dont have "lucky"... it would be quite unfair especially when in the game there is a rule to avoid that to happens...

And think that in the future this would happen more and more...more Act I items, less % to get any of them...The chance to see all the items after the Interlude would be BASIC, now and even more in the future.



#12 griton

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 11:25 AM

I agree with Varikas. For the most part, it won't affect many parties, but for those that got unlucky, it's going to be a bigger make-it or break-it situation, adding to the swing-factor in favor of the OL. (It's not really going to hurt parties already doing well, and it may hurt parties which are already suffering from a lack of gear)

 

A few things to keep in mind when you make this decision:

* The best strategy is almost always to not spend any money here and just save it for Act II. The exception is when you've noticed a big hole in your inventory. It's very likely that this step was added by FFG to specifically flatten out this curve for parties that were getting unlucky earlier in the adventure.

* A house-rule like this should really be stated before the first shopping phase of the campaign. Knowing that you will have the chance to pick up an item again at the end of Act I may affect purchasing decisions throughout the Act.

* This may more significantly affect smaller parties: a 2-hero party sees only 60% of the options that a 4-hero party does, and on top of that, is more restricted in what is useful to the group as a whole.



#13 Silverhelm

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 11:46 AM

I agree with most things said here. As a OL it's are job to entertain the hero players (and make them suffer). This is really up to heroes. If heroes try this it will be a trail-and-error experience. I'm guessing if they did poorly in the randomness of the shop phases they probably won't play this way again. But if they get lucky it will be more a "that really wasn't a big deal feel".

If heroes had really bad luck with there shop phases this could swing in OL's favor really quickly. Which is why the rule is there to help prevent bad luck at end of act 1. If heroes are lazy with getting search tokens shop phases won't make any diffrance anyway.

But as a hero tactical advantage this rule can be used in an interesting way (for hero benefit). If heros mustered and saved all that coin for this step they will be in controll of there hero builds in act 2. Act 1 stuff is weak but there are some goods ones. As they progress through act 2 act one gear will be swapped and exchanged for an upgrade. With the exchange they already have a down payment.

Edited by Silverhelm, 14 October 2013 - 12:07 PM.





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